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Article posted Jan 26 2011, 5:09 PM Category: General Source: YouTube Print

ZEITGEIST: Moving Backwards (Communism with Magic Robots Pt.2)



Not sure if I should even post this, it's all "fixed pie" Marxist propaganda, coaxed in some supposedly anti-government rhetoric, don't even get me started on the guilt mongering (just look at the image of the starving Africans which right now is the preview frame, that's, of course, your fault). If you don't understand real economics, it's easy to fall prey to such nonsense.

"Capitalism" is blamed for statism, Keynesian consumptionism is confused with free market exchange. Determinist propaganda when it comes to diseases (disguised as anti-determinism). Human nature is supposedly malleable and we're all blank slates and blah blah blah. It's too much nonsense to even respond to.

The first line of deep thought is some feel good psychobabble saying how people will never be satisfied looking to acquire all sorts of stuff. Obviously that's true, once one need is satisfied, you want to search for more things and accomplish new things, why is that bad?

Can someone please point me to someone who is completely satisfied in all things forever perpetually?

Human life experiences change, things change, wants change, needs change, humans change. One day you like drinking soda pop, the next you get sick and change to drinking water and juice. How would being completely satisfied drinking soda pop your whole life be advantageous? We're all just supposed to be perpetual plebs enjoying the present solely and taking no steps to improve our lot and experience future joys. God forbid you experience self-reflection and decide you'd like to change for the better, clearly there's something wrong with you because you don't realize you're perfect as is.

Adapting to change and progressing through life and experiencing the ups and downs is part of living and part of life. Being some lobotomized robot who is experiencing nirvana all the time seems to me to be, #1 boring, #2 not living.

Unfortunately I just don't care enough to do a full response and actually watch the entire movie, I only half-watched the first 20 minutes. I would recommend reading The Anti-Capitalistic Mentality by Ludwig von Mises and studying Austrian economics. If you really want to move forward, watch this. - Chris, InfoLib

Update: Holy god I actually skipped through to an hour and five minutes in and he attacks Ludwig von Mises and Hayek! Good god this is retarded. Apparently, Africa is some free market utopia and not a socialist hellhole like we all thought, people are starving because of Mises's economic theories which no governments follow and all universally ignore, not because they're socialist hellholes with zero economic freedom. Keynesianism apparently is Austrianism despite one being a coercive central planner and the other a free-marketeer. This is painfully stupid.

Update: Skipped again, at 1:49:00 he says "nature is a dictatorship" and says we need some centrally planned dictatorship with perfect information, I guess it will be run by Jacques Fresco and Peter Joseph because apparently they've solved all the problems of the world "in theory." This is an epic fail.





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Comments 1 - 20 of 57 Add Comment Page of 3 >
todj

Posted: Jan 26 2011, 5:48 PM

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98118 This has nothing to do with political beliefs. Communism is politics. Your comments come off as a naive idiot. As is obvious by this excellent website...you're better than that. Get out of the "frequency".
Danny

Posted: Jan 26 2011, 6:25 PM

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682 I loved the first Zeitgeist. Then I saw Zeitgeist Addendum and realized Im watching a film that is basically an infomercial for The Venus Project, which is nothing more than a fantasy Socialist Wall-E world in which humans do absolutely nothing while machines do everything for them. In this fantasy human nature is changed, and like Star Trek TNG, humans dont care about money or power, only about improving themselves. Ill stick to reality.
Chris

Posted: Jan 26 2011, 6:46 PM

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Actually it has everything to do with politics:

Who is going to control the magic robots? Who are the people who are going to have to work in their socialist utopia while everyone else has everything handed to them? Who will decide what the magic robots produce, who will decide who gets what? Some super-computer is their answer.

That's straight out of Planned-opolis: http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=33992

Who will program this super computer?

That right there shows how idiotic it is. Every action the computer takes is going to have to be programmed by someone, it's just like the idiotic climate models the fake environmentalists churn out saying how we're all going to die if we don't pay Al Gore a carbon tax, they programmed them to say just that, it's not like because a computer says it it's outside of the follies of man.

A super computer cannot decide what's best for people, it doesn't have the needed information to judge what's best for each individual, Hayek called it the knowledge problem, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNbYdbf3EEc , no central planner can ever have enough knowledge to know what's in the 6 billion individuals in society's best interests. Of course, they don't have the moral right to either.
Chris

Posted: Jan 26 2011, 7:29 PM

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Here's a thread on the Mises forum discussing the movie in more detail: http://mises.org/Community/forums/t/22170.aspx
todj

Posted: Jan 26 2011, 7:36 PM

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98118 Maybe that's your problem...you put all your faith in the Mises institute. They're as bad as the Keynsians IMO. Again, you need to get out of the "frequency" in totality. You haven't done that yet.
Chris

Posted: Jan 26 2011, 7:40 PM

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Yeah I have the Mises bust and I sit at home worshiping it all day.

"Oh holy Mises Institute, I put my faith in thee!"

How about explain the "frequency" in specific terms so I can respond?
Chris

Posted: Jan 26 2011, 8:07 PM

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Sweet lord, I skipped through a bit and now I know the "frequency" I'm not in contact with, it's being an idiot pleb communist who knows his place under some centrally planned dictatorship run by Jacques Fresco and Peter Joseph. Who knew these idiot socialists had the whole world figured out? Those silly capitalists don't realize they could grow all their food in apartment buildings hanging everything upside down. Who'd have known how terribly wasteful it was to actually grow food in the ground?! This is such an epic fail.
scramjat

Posted: Jan 26 2011, 11:14 PM

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99239 Wow.... This Zeitgeist "film" is Total dog crap! None of the information they present is factual: Thier claim that starved mothers were able to give brith to healty babies is completely false and unfounded. The babies actually came out with the same symptoms of starvation as thier mothers and suffered effects from the famine throughout thier lives (Academic Medical Centre, 2008) Not even two minutes into the film it is claimed that everyone belived the world was flat - False. Societies knew the world was round including the writers of the old testament knew this. Even the damn old testament refers to the earth as a "circle" (Isaiah 40:22.) This is the worst travesty against the uneducated i've ever seen. I had to stop watching after twenty minutes. I can't believe that people are actually taking this seriously.
Anonymous

Posted: Jan 27 2011, 2:01 AM

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89133 You obviously did not have a solid understanding of the movie, and that is OK as long as you don't pass judgment.
Anonymous

Posted: Jan 27 2011, 2:05 AM

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89133 All political systems are design to do one thing: legitimize the power of a minority group over the rest. Yes, that includes democracy.
Anonymous

Posted: Jan 27 2011, 11:35 AM

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60234 "Wow.... This Zeitgeist "film" is Total dog crap! ... I had to stop watching after twenty minutes." -Well now you wouldn't know if it was any good because you ceased watching when you ceased agreeing with it.
Btw, I know it's uber easy to fall on those crutch words; communist, socialist, marxist etc, but in case you didn't watch it the proposed system has no ruling political party... People have always said yeh capitalism might be average but it's the best thing we've got. That might've been true sometime last century but it's not anymore. Not that I believe that this will actually come to pass anytime soon, there are far too many peckerheads in power willing to do anything it takes to preserve their current belief system and keep as much as they can in the top of the pyramid.
Anonymous

Posted: Jan 27 2011, 11:38 AM

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60234 Chris, you seem like a pretty smart guy. What is your best idea? Assuming the current "economy" is far from perfect.
Chris

Posted: Jan 27 2011, 1:23 PM

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There is only one question to ask yourself:

**Do you support the stealing of people's wealth through violence or the threat of violence?**

If not... then how can you have a government?

I don't support the stealing of people's wealth through violence, therefor I don't support government as a concept. That means any civil society needs to be organized not around a government based in violence and theft but voluntary associations mutually beneficial to all parties involved. That's what "voluntarism" is. Such a society would most likely be ordered as a civil free market anarchy/private law society as described here: http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=32471

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntaryism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Rothbard
Chris

Posted: Jan 27 2011, 1:27 PM

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"Assume a group of people, aware of the possibility of conflicts; and then someone proposes, as a solution to this eternal human problem, that he (someone) be made the ultimate arbiter in any such case of conflict, including those conflicts in which he is involved. I am confident that he will be considered either a joker or mentally unstable and yet this is precisely what all statists propose." - Hans-Hermann Hoppe, "Reflections on the Origin and the Stability of the State"

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=33659
Anonymous

Posted: Jan 27 2011, 3:15 PM

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9423 He lost me at "imagine this..."
Anonymous

Posted: Jan 27 2011, 4:12 PM

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205188 I love this site. I visit it daily. I agree with most of the perspectives, but when it comes to Milty Friedman, and the entire concept of the virus of consumption and unfettered "free markets," like mentioned in the Matrix - humans, as they exist today via the infinite growth paradigm - are a virus.

We can be self sufficient not just with mandatory consumption of food, but energy needed to survive. The economy as it exists is eventually a self destruction. There expansion of Applebees can continue for hundreds of years. But, there is an end. It is not a system that self sustains. Worship of the "free markets" is a false paradigm. It runs out of steam or people to buy the crap. Or, they can't afford it.
Anonymous

Posted: Jan 27 2011, 4:20 PM

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216228 "The idea was that those who direct the overall conspiracy could use the differences in those two so-called ideologies [marxism/fascism/socialism v. democracy/capitalism] to enable them [the Illuminati] to divide larger and larger portions of the human race into opposing camps so that they could be armed and then brainwashed into fighting and destroying each other."- Myron Fagan

For the first time in its history, Western Civilization is in danger of being destroyed internally by a corrupt, criminal ruling cabal which is centered around the Rockefeller interests, which include elements from the Morgan, Brown, Rothschild, Du Pont, Harriman, Kuhn-Loeb, and other groupings as well. This junta took control of the political, financial, and cultural life of America in the first two decades of the twentieth century. Professor Carrol Quigley

The few who could understand the system will either be so interested in its profits, or so dependent on its favours, that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of the people mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests. John Sherman

"The invisible Money Power is working to control and enslave mankind. It financed Communism, Fascism, Marxism, Zionism, Socialism. All of these are directed to making the United States a member of a World Government ..." -- AMERICAN MERCURY MAGAZINE, December 1957, pg. 92.

The pioneers of a warless world are the youth that refuse military service. -Albert Einstein -

“Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.” ~Bertrand Russell

"War paralyzes your courage and deadens the spirit of true manhood. It degrades and stupefies with the sense that you are not responsible, that 'tis not yours to think and reason why, but to do and die,' like the hundred thousand others doomed like yourself. War means blind obedience, unthinking stupidity, brutish callousness, wanton destruction, and irresponsible murder." - Alexander Berkman -

"Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy"- Henry Kissinger

"Democracy is the best political system of slavery ever invented. In a democracy, the slaves believe that they are "free" and have a "voice" in their affairs. Thus, they are willing slaves and, as such, the possibility of a revolt is much less than in an overt system of slavery." - Christopher S Hyatt, 'The Psychopath's Bible

Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom. — Ludwig von Mises

War against a foreign country only happens when the moneyed classes think they are going to profit from it. — George Orwell

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. — George Orwell

The wicked prowl on every side, When vileness is exalted among the sons of men. Psalm 12:8

They shall cast their silver in the streets, and their gold shall be removed: their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the LORD: they shall not satisfy their souls, neither fill their bowels: because it is the stumblingblock of their iniquity. Ezekial 7:19

"Man will ultimately be governed by God or by tyrants." Benjamin Franklin

"The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God" (Psalm 9:17).


Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. — Aldous Huxley
Chris

Posted: Jan 27 2011, 4:30 PM

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To Anon 205188, I think you're confusing free markets with Keynesian consumptionism, the fake economic theories which all governments around the world use to "stimulate demand" and give an excuse for the state to print endless money and have low interest rates to fuel consumption (Keynesians confuse spending and consumption with economic growth). Economic growth is about saving and producing more than you consume, not spending and consuming on credit. See our Intro to Austrian Economics and the book "How an Economy Grows and Why It Doesn't": http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=30611
Anonymous

Posted: Jan 27 2011, 7:49 PM

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94224 Please people, don't talk about the robots, its like living in old egypt trying to explain how a laptop works. There is a lot of discussion about this new world. But there is no discussion about the current world...the world must be changed and there is no doubt about that.

Eco is coming from the greek word "ΟΙΚΟΣ" which means "home". We are like housewifes, doing our householding. Therefore, a good eco-system, is clean and smells good.

Our house right now, stinks and is full of waste.
I AM (not) GOD

Posted: Jan 27 2011, 8:22 PM

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68202 I have not watched the new version yet, but know what to expect. The Venus Project/Zeitgeist Movement seems to be the only well-thought out positive alternative to the NWO, and even though it's going to be really difficult to get enough people to wake up and choose a better way, we really need to open our minds and think outside the box.
Remember folks, this is play. It's like brainstorming, it's imperfect, a work in progress. These guys can't give us the ultimate solution or fix the problem for the human race. But maybe they can challenge us to think big, to dream, to imagine all the people, living s John Lennon suggested, like a golden age. Why not? Or does that philosophy detract from our role as good little consumers, spending our time in the shopping malls selling our souls to the devil?
At least these guys don't have international bankers and multinational corporations behind them trying to steal the shirt off our back, molest our kids and tell us they've got a plan to make the planet a wonderful place.
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