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Analysis posted Jan 25 2012, 11:59 PM Category: Tyranny/Police State Source: InformationLiberation Print

Was This Police Shooting Justified?

Chris | InformationLiberation

There's a ton of debate all over the interwebs over this police shooting at a Carl's Jr. in Monterey Park, California.

The suspect was smashing the windows at the store with a crowbar before the police shot him. I had heard that he had gotten into an argument with his teacher about a bad grade. People are saying that midterms are on right now, one witness said, see this article for more background on the case.

I'm undecided on whether this shooting was justified, one thing I noticed is the man was trying to just walk away from the scene, he hadn't harmed anyone physically, only property. It's when the cop tries to taze him, then mace him that he turns and takes an aggressive posture, leading to the other cop unloading on him.

Compare it to this video I posted the other day where a man walks up and punches/tackles a cop in the middle of an arrest, the cops fumbled around and wrestled with the guy for a while, not using any deadly force. They also just let the first guy who they were arresting for "disorderly conduct" run away without thinking too much about it, he was, of course, later caught. The asian cop in the video definitely took things too far, but the other two cops were rather professional about the incident, and they didn't just rush to execute the men for questioning their authorit-taih.

Almost everyone agrees there was no need to shoot the man an additional 5 times after the first cop shot him 5 times, many say one shot would have been enough. One stray bullet even flew into a restaurant sign across the street with a woman standing below it, shattered glass apparently rained on her, she was taken to the hospital but only suffered minor injuries.

Also note, if the cop didn't have his gun pointed at the guy like he was some violent criminal ready to strike at any moment, and the cops again didn't taze him/mace him, it's entirely likely he would have just walked away and calmed down if they just talked him down, it really strikes me as just lazy police work, which is, of course, to be expected.

I'm really not sure entirely what to think about this video, it's hard to make judgement calls on whether this or that shooting was justified when the entire system of policing is inherently criminal.

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Comments 1 - 20 of 20 Add Comment Page 1 of 1

Posted: Jan 26 2012, 4:27 AM

My point of view is that the provocation was no justification for assassination.
The price of bad grades.......

Posted: Jan 26 2012, 4:35 AM

10842 You aren't asking people to justify killing, right? Because that would make you a con. The "more war" type.

Posted: Jan 26 2012, 5:59 AM

Sorry, should have expressed it better.
Justification is when self-preservation kicks in, of which there is no control.
But as police assume they can kill with the minimum fallout (license), justification is unnecessary.

Nobody deserves to die unnaturally.

Posted: Jan 26 2012, 9:12 AM

63225 The man could have been subdued a number of different ways but the cops chose assassination because they know their bosses will allow it and the sheeple won't fight back against it. People either start fighting back or start lining up.

Posted: Jan 26 2012, 11:31 AM

10842 @1stcleanharry, I knew what you meant. I was speaking to the headline.

Posted: Jan 26 2012, 12:41 PM

9820 In my opinion the police were totally justified in this instance. The boy had a crowbar in hand, the ultimate weapon of mass destruction. At the moment of execution, we can only see 4 uniformed police officers present, plus of course the police canine. ONLY FOUR bullet proof vested policemen equipped with only batons, pepper gas and tasers as well as their pistols, obviously no physical match for a boy with a crowbar. If the police hadn't immediately pepper sprayed and shot him multiple times, it is quite likely he would have eventually laid down his crowbar. At this point he would have gotten arrested leading to incarceration and him becoming a burden to the taxpayers. He may have been forced to provide restitution for the broken windows. These latter scenarios have all been avoided due to the prompt actions of the policeman.

Posted: Jan 26 2012, 1:03 PM

67171 Actually, it is a pick axe and not a crowbar. Look carefully.

What is most disturbing about the official police statement released to the media, and carried by the media nationally, is that he purportedly swung at the officers with the axe, twice.

If you watch the video carefully, no such thing happens. This means the police spokesman is lying. This is a crime in itself.

The one officer behind the victim lowers his head to ready his pistol. While doing so, he accidentally walks up very close behind the victim. The victim turns to give him a warning -- "stay away, I have an axe in case you forgot" -- and he never takes a swing. This action apparently warranted the 10 shots that were fired within 6 feet distance.

The second and/or third shots clearly hit the man in the chest and he turns to walk away. This is not enough. Seven more shots end up killing the man. Many of these shots seem to be to his back while he is heading toward the ground from being wounded.

These officers will get an instant paid vacation for a few months since they killed someone. They will likely get off with a reprimand but no jail time. This is typical for these cases.

The family of the victim has strong grounds to sue the police for several hundreds of thousands of dollars in our taxpayer money. They will probably settle out of court, which is also typical.

Prevent the loss of taxpayer money due to excessive police force.
Donate to:

The National Police Misconduct Statistics and Reporting Project

What Can We Learn From Criminal Complaints Against Cops?

Posted: Jan 26 2012, 5:44 PM

69138 this is cold blooded murder.

Posted: Jan 26 2012, 6:36 PM

74204 The kid was stupid for threatening with a deadly weapon (electritions 1/2" conduit bender). Two shots are justified, but that was murder They are not public servants, but paid thug assassins. Aiming a taser at someone's face, was incompetent at best, but possibly vicious. A wise officer would have handled this much better. Like approaching from two different directions. Tackling him would have been my action. The cops need hand to hand training, they weren't really in much danger. I've had no training, 5'10",160 Lb, out of shape, and I could easily have disarmed/detained him by myself. If you can't handle yourself better than that, you have no business being a cop, or carrying a gun.

Posted: Jan 26 2012, 7:21 PM

@63225, no need to fight nor get in line. The government is doing an AWESOME job destroying itself. Just grab your popcorn, and friends; this is a good show.

Posted: Jan 26 2012, 7:51 PM

71197 Agreed, murder. There were so many other ways to subdue this guy. Killing should have been the absolute last resort.

Posted: Jan 26 2012, 9:59 PM

@end the b/s-74204, You didn't know did you? That I get to play by the same rules? I may be fucked, but YOU ARE SOOO FUCKED! Now, if you can't get with their program, maybe you should do some "UN"fucking.

They didn't tell you a lot of things. idiot.

Posted: Jan 26 2012, 10:12 PM

also, you didn't listen to the song, (or, you were too stupid to comprehend it.)

"I have nothing to gain - to lose." This means, I can't buy my way out.


Posted: Jan 27 2012, 12:10 AM

Lol Anon9820, point taken ;)
Michael Suede

Posted: Jan 27 2012, 11:58 AM

15861 I think the shooting was justified.

Let's suppose the people confronting him were the store owner and his business partner. If I was the store owner (the cop who did the shooting) and my partner was the guy who was trying to stop him and perform a citizen's arrest on him, I would have shot him if he had taken the stance he did.

He didn't swing, but he put himself in a stance where he was ready to swing at a moments notice. If you wait to shoot until he swings, it could very well be too late to make a difference in preventing him from delivering a fatal blow.

If I was on a jury, I would vote the police innocent.

I hate cops with just as much passion as anyone here, but the guy was in the wrong and he was clearly disturbed and violent.

Posted: Jan 27 2012, 8:22 PM

67171 @15861 --

1) Why did they not use the police dog to save this man's life? The dog could have disarmed him. Our taxpayer money pays for the dog to be used, to protect life.

2) Why were the police so close to this man? The proximity begs for a confrontation that results in the victim being killed.

3) What you advocate is punishing thought crime. That is, killing before a crime is expected to occur. At any moment on the freeway, and individual can cross lanes of traffic and hit a police cruiser head-on, killing the officers inside. Why not kill everyone on the road who is able to do such a thing, at a moment's notice? Shoot them all beforehand, according to your logic.

Posted: Jan 27 2012, 8:40 PM

74204 If you have ever get attacked with a club (I have been). You put a blocking arm up and rush in to him to reduce the swing of the club. If block is done with handled nightstick no injury to arm is risked.Then take him to the ground. Serious threat over. I have done this at least twice, without nightstick, and with no more than a bruise. I luckily reacted properly, when this happened to me the first time, as a bouncer. Someone with basic hand to hand training would already know this technique.
His back was turned long enough for them to rush him with no risk. The two officers should have easily disarmed him without firing a shot. They have been taught to depend on the tazer (sometimes lethal or ineffective) and mace (sometimes ineffective). Also to kill before allowing risk of injury. This is incompetent training.
Sometimes good people become irrational for many reasons. Public servants would treat his life with more caution. They have been taught their lives are more important than ours. Not to take risks. Well I want them to take risks to save lives. That's the job our taxes pay for !!!! You are statistically more likely to die by police than terrorists. That is a very sad statistic. Police State training must stop!

Posted: Jan 28 2012, 12:26 AM

75136 Not enough info to go on but from what the writing said, he knew the score when he swung. You couldn't hear what was being said for the idiots laughing. The only thing for sure is that the cop needs more practice, one or two should have done it. Play the game, pay the price.

Posted: Jan 28 2012, 7:41 AM

Yeah, well some people suggested it may have been a 'suicide by cop' type incident, I would assume the cop w/ the gun out was threatening to shoot him verbally, the cop certainly had an "aggressive posture" much more than the assailant.

It really seems like the key point is the initial tazering/pepper spraying though, before that the man was just walking away from the scene, there is no question he would have been caught eventually, going right for the tazer really seems like it was not the best decision.

Of course, I wouldn't personally wait to see if the man was serious about hitting me w/ a crowbar, but I don't walk around with a gun everywhere itching to shoot people, and I certainly wouldn't take a job where I'd be apt to be put in such situations.
To Michael: If you were the owner would you really try making a citizens arrest? Would you have tazed him/pepper sprayed him as he was walking away? The guy is going to be caught regardless, and he sure as hell is not likely to come break your windows a second time.

Personally, I'd just chalk it up as the cost of doing business, random crazy people do crazy things, I don't view it as my responsibility to right every wrong, especially considering the possible legal ramifications.

Also, if it was two private citizens in place of those cops, and they tazed the man walking away, then shot him after he came back to swing at them, I really question how a jury would treat such an incident, not having the magical uniforms really changes the scenario in my mind, perhaps that's the most damning condemnation of the police's actions.

Posted: Feb 12 2012, 8:43 AM

15121 police assassins! satanic laws!
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