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Article posted Nov 26 2011, 5:00 AM Category: Commentary Source: InformationLiberation Print

Who Knew The Zeitgeist Movement/Venus Project Imploded A Few Months Ago?

Chris | InformationLiberation

Wow, I don't know how I missed this! Apparently, the Venus Project and the Zeitgeist Movement have imploded due to Jacques Fresco's egomaniacal insanity.



[Video replaced, the original video was taken down.]

This is too rich. Peter makes the guy famous, then, of course, the idiot communist who doesn't believe in private property and says no one should be allowed to own anything, says Peter is "stealing" his intellectual property (the only type of property which doesn't exist!) and is not giving him enough credit for "his" ideas! Is there anything more laughable? Meanwhile, as they say in the audio below, he copied many of his ideas from Buckminster Fuller and the utterly deplorable B.F. Skinner (who no doubt developed their ideas from others as well).

Apparently, TVP wanted to raise 20 million dollars for some stupid movie, and Peter Joseph, who has worked in the film industry for 10 years, said he thought it wasn't a great idea, was highly speculative, and would probably not work out, especially in this economy. Therefor, they completely turned on him.



I'm not a huge fan of Peter's views on most issues, but there is no question his first film was absolutely superb and the second one threw it all away by promoting Jacques Fresco's crazy version of communism with magic robots. I really feel sorry for Peter, but this is an absolutely epic socialist fail.

Here's the full audio, it's astonishing to listen to. The Venus Project lady is a complete and total control freak lunatic who feels no one should be allowed to advocate for The Venus Project except through their website, she is literally against having The Zeitgeist Movement advocate for her movement because they're not 100% in lockstep parroting their BS (and dead set on funding their $20,000,000+ film). She even forbids them from using any of their material, completely ignoring fair use law, not to mention their communist philosophy that no one owns anything. Jacques, she says, wanted to take part, "but he was sleeping." Yeah, sure. You have to love the way these communists are total control freaks and absolutely hate freedom and free association.



[Skip to around 55:00 if you don't want to hear it all.]

Here's Peter's podcast after this all went down.





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Comments 21 - 40 of 103 Add Comment < Page of 6 >
David

Posted: Nov 27 2011, 7:59 PM

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138130 Chris as an anarchist I suggest you free yourself from having to recite 'drone like' responses from stefans '19answers' list. Especially since you have been invited to engage in a constructive debate, it would be great if you also abandon the exaggerated hyperbole that stefan falsely represents as critical thinking. If there is anyone being fanatical here, dictating that the truth is singularly theirs its you and your master stef. Reminds me of any other kind of fanatic, be they marxist or socialist or capitalist, all the same. All similarly deaf and limited perspectives and all have their geniuses that envisaged them.
Chris

Posted: Nov 27 2011, 8:28 PM

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>>"The government in Canada only funds the health care system, the government has nothing to do with running it. Medical associations/hospitals and the government agree on annual budgets and pricing. That's the extent of government involvement."

Is that sarcasm? All it does is fund the entire thing, create the entire framework, set all the rules and laws, outlaw private health care from competing, but that's not "running it" because "the hospitals/associations/government agree on pricing?"

How is someone supposed to respond to that? You don't see how illogical such a statement is?

The law forbids them from charging extra? No, the law forbids them from providing the service outside of the state's mandatory framework, doctors who go around it are breaking the law and are considered criminals, that's why Canadians cross the border to America and elsewhere to get their operations done rather than wait a year in some massive line so the state can "serve" them. Why do you think there is massive waiting lists for every operation? Here in evil America you can get your operations done any time you want, all you have to do is pay for it. In Canada you need to get on some huge waiting list and sit around waiting to die.

America is of course not even a free market, the state has its hands over everything, hence it costing so much, before the state "helped" everyone health insurance was 2$ a month, in today's money that's around 20$ a month. Now it will costs $200+ for worse coverage, boy the gubmint sure does help!

>>"The term free market is a code word for an unregulated market that allows the rich to consume and monopolize resources for personal gain free from accountability for the broader social and environmental consequences".

OoOOoooo, "free market is a code word," zomg, here I thought it meant human beings engaging in voluntary trade free of the coercive guns of violent state power! Clearly that's pure evil, god forbid people be allowed to engage in free trade, thanks David Korten!

The free market led to the greatest expansion in wealth in the history of the world in just the last 200 years, the population went from 500,000,000 to 7,000,000,000 in that short time span, the average person was lifted out of horrendous poverty to these days having a cell phone, air conditioning, internal heating, LCD TV's, computers, cars, gourmet food, etc. etc., the average American lives better than your average King from 200 years ago, that's what free enterprise has brought us, that wasn't the work of government thugs with guns who are "here to help."

The government does represent some people, it represents the worst of humanity who are the one's drawn to state power. http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/hayek-was-right-the-worst-do-get-to-the-top/

The problem isn't that "we need one more law," the problem is the monopolist "provider" that is the state which bans competition under threats of jail and murder. There is no way to regulate for the best interests of "the group," every unique individual has their own interests and no one's are exactly the same, that's the whole problem with socialism and why it fails everywhere it's tried (including in the US). See Hayek on Socialism: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNbYdbf3EEc

I don't mind your attempt to help through dialogue, I only mind attempts to "help" through the guns of the government. I don't think people are helped by having a government goon threaten to murder them for not obeying some law some strangers voted to subject other people to against their will. That's the problem with government as an institution and that is why I advocate voluntaryism / anarcho-capitalism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntaryism If you want to have a socialist commune in which everyone participating agrees voluntarily to be a part of it, I don't care. I don't want to be forced into it by heavily armed gangsters with guns, even if they call themselves "the law" and claim to be "here to help."
Anonymous

Posted: Nov 27 2011, 8:46 PM

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138130 Chris "The free market led to the greatest expansion in wealth in the history of the world in just the last 200 years, the population went from 500,000,000 to 7,000,000,000 in that short time span, the average person was lifted out of horrendous poverty to these days having a cell phone, air conditioning, internal heating, LCD TV's, computers, cars, gourmet food, etc. etc., the average American lives better than your average King from 200 years ago" i couldn't agree more but before you mistakenly jump to the speculation that Gov't had nothing to do with this and just only by bazzar coincidence came along for the ride at that precise same time, I think you ought to view Steven Pinker On the decline of violence and The better angels of our nature". You may even consider this as a credible rebuke upon stef critic that GOVT ONLY equals violence.
Chris

Posted: Nov 27 2011, 9:05 PM

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Came along for the ride? First off, government has existed for as long as we know, the state is savage barbarism and organized violence, if anything it's an extension of savage tribalism, it has nothing to do with capitalism, state coercion and force is the exact opposite of voluntary trade.

As to Steven Pinker, I'm watching his interview on Reason and it's absolutely laughable. The government IS violence, to say private crime has lessened because government crime expanded does not mean there is less violence. I do know there is less crime, but that's due to there being less of a battle over scarce resources thanks to capitalism, however hampered, not because state violence doesn't count as violence. The state is responsible for easily 95%+ of crime in society, but they have magical badges and hold elections where their subjects vote for them, so that makes it "a-ok." Sure.

I love how he calls the state "a disinterested third party." The majority of conflicts in the world are between humans and the state, everyone breaks thousands of laws every year, there's implicit violence in every new "regulation" and "law" the government passes, no one follows those stupid laws because they think they're just wonderful, they follow them because they don't want to be thrown into a cage or murdered by violent state goons. Who rules over cases between humans and the state? The state is a "disinterested third party" in cases involving itself?

Don't make me laugh.
GetinitforTruth

Posted: Nov 27 2011, 11:47 PM

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7467 Excellent post, Chris; Info Lib! Thank you
Chris

Posted: Nov 28 2011, 12:22 AM

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Thanks GetinitforTruth! Much appreciated!
Anonymous

Posted: Nov 28 2011, 10:33 AM

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12200 Spot on Chris! Love the site, keep up the fight!!
Roger from the Netherlands

Posted: Nov 28 2011, 11:55 AM

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82173 Like the article said.....i absolutely loved the first Zeitgeist movie. For me an eye openener that made me really start digging in world history. Don't say it was all truth, but it was something i never saw before (i was totallly at sleep until 2005).
Chris

Posted: Nov 28 2011, 6:59 PM

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Thanks Anon & Roger! Agreed about the first movie, the second was good too in terms of filmmaking, there's no doubt Peter is an excellent filmmaker and has a ton of talent.
Chris

Posted: Nov 28 2011, 7:30 PM

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The thing is, Peter definitely felt pressured after making the first movie to give everyone some sort of "solution" which they were all clamoring for (because they felt uneasy after finding out everything is not as the government told them it was).

The problem is there is no one size fits all solution to every individual's problems in the world.

The idea of some sort of "quick fix" is very alluring to everyone but there is no such thing as getting something for nothing. There is something in some people's brains which causes them to yearn for a leader or someone to transfer their own responsibilities to so they can avoid the "burden" of thinking and deciding things for themselves, maybe it's because of their childhood or how they were raised, I don't really know. It has to be asked why have things been so bad for the majority of people for time immemorial.

One thing his films got half right is scarcity is the cause of most conflicts, if everyone had everything they wanted the world would be a much better place. Fortunately, with the expansion of capitalism that's happening more and more and so things are getting better globally, that Steven Pinker guy also got that half right.

I really see the only "solution" to things to be freedom as embodied by free market capitalism and anarchist individualism, it doesn't have to be for everyone, just people who actually want it getting together and forming a stateless society sort of similar to the Free State Project or the Seasteading Institute. I know Doug Casey wanted to privatize a small island and "take it public on the New York stock exchange," if something like that happened it could really set an example for the world to follow ( la, "The Market For Liberty," by Linda and Morris Tannehill). The internet as is has already decentralized almost everything, it's really just a matter of time before internet forums start to come together in the real world and declare their sovereignty politically and not just mentally. How long are people really going to go on paying their taxes to these stupid increasingly irrelevant governments? Not much longer, I don't think.

That's all I see in the way of "solutions," maybe someone else has some better ideas, please share them if you do!
david

Posted: Nov 28 2011, 7:37 PM

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138130
Hi chris sorry for lack of flow, i'm in the middle of moving house and using friends internet because of this.
You know I didn't really expect you to agree with steve pinker but did think it might put a little pause in the fanatical-(I'm ABSOULTELY right, everyone else is is just laughably and COMPLETELY wrong) perspective you and stef put forward.
Theres a new perspecrtive in the 21st century called Integral Philosophy, you might want to tune into it some time and learn that what your doing is 1st tier thinking, propagating ORANGE meme as the salvation of all.
Suffice to say I don't agree with your appraisal of steve pinker work.
There seems to be an idealism in you that before Governance/Civilization all was just right and lovely and free. The idea that somehow it was Governance that brought forth savagery and barbarism. I have some sweet hippy friends who use to feel the same way about Money Govt and Business etc.
Similarly you have an idealism that if we just let the Free Market rule then people will return to some golden age of peace and the planet will be just fine. This type of idealism is really no different to the Venus Project. Its a fiction. You have no evidence of it. Nothing wrong with idealism and maybe in the future it may be seen as visionary. But in the words of stefbot to Venus Project, 'Fine, maybe it works, but go away and prove it first before you impose it upon us'. Maybe as part of the business plan you can televise it back to us as a reality TV program. Should be most educational and yes provide a laugh or two.
Anyhow 'Modernity' governance of the last 200 yrs is quite different from governance of before. Never before had the will of the people had any say in Gov't. And you may disagree that its been responsible for increasing life standards but its obviously not prevented it either, the PROOF is we have it.
So for me I believe we should look to improve whats proven to work before we make radical change based on fiction, no matter how beautiful the idealism behind it. Unlike Stef though, I don't really want to tell you to go away anywhere, Id actually like to have you and your views contribute to the change upon us and in a way through opening up dialogues like this you and venus project and MANY others, are part of this exciting time of change when Post Modern Governance, Business and Society is finding its feet.
Kevin TVP Activism USPA Chapter

Posted: Nov 28 2011, 7:51 PM

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7460 Here's what really happened....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJbRM46tltI
Why did The Venus Project part ways with The Zeitgeist Movement?

Lygeia

Posted: Nov 28 2011, 8:01 PM

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752 Wow, Chris. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for staying on top of this and reporting this. Ever since I saw the second techno-utopia movie with its planned cities where only 50,000 people could live (what about children and population growth -- oh wait, they hate that), I have been warning people that this would not end well.
Chris

Posted: Nov 28 2011, 8:11 PM

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Thanks Lygeia! No problem, this whole episode is quite fascinating!
Chris

Posted: Nov 28 2011, 8:36 PM

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Hi David, I'm not sure what you're talking about as I said literally the opposite of what you're saying I said. For example, I said before government was tribalism and government is probably an extension of it. I said government IS barbarism and savagery, from the moment it was first created. I do not think people get together and choose a government, I think people get together and impose a government on many unwilling subjects for their own personal benefit (this is what happened in the US for example with the constitutional convention of 1787). Also, I do not think I am absolutely right and everyone else is completely wrong, I think I'm generally right and certain other people are mostly wrong, also there is nothing I appreciate more than being proven wrong so that I can improve my mind, just as I completely changed my take on everything upon learning Austrian economics and the works of Hans Hoppe, Rothbard, Rockwell, Mises, Jeffrey Tucker, Hulsman, and others just a few years ago. I did practically a complete 180 and changed the tone of the entire site, so please don't tell me I'm not open to new ideas or think I'm completely right, I'm willing to change everything at the drop of a hat if the logic is sound.

>>"Similarly you have an idealism that if we just let the Free Market rule then people will return to some golden age of peace and the planet will be just fine. This type of idealism is really no different to the Venus Project. Its a fiction. You have no evidence of it. "

First off, the free market cannot "rule" as it doesn't have any power over anyone, the free market is just people trading their goods with one another on a voluntary basis for mutual benefit. Secondly, I never said we'll "return" to a golden age of peace as I do not think things were just fine in the past, like I just said, "It has to be asked why have things been so bad for the majority of people for time immemorial." My type of "idealism" is actually the exact opposite of the Venus Project, it's a thorough rejection of central planning whereas the Venus Project embraces it 100%, it's free market anarchism vs centrally planned dictatorship, the two cannot be more different. Also, the times in history where the state was least powerful are the times when the people have the most economic growth, in America for example in the "not so wild west" the American economy had explosive growth despite next to zero government involvement, and I would say largely because of it.

I just said in my previous post, I have no desire to impose anything on anyone, I wish to live in a peaceful free society where I'm not a subject, is that alright with you or must I be subjugated by some dictator?

OK, you're making a totally false interpretation of history which is perfectly described in this talk by Hans Hoppe called "Theory and History": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n4IYhSk9oQ

The government absolutely 100% has prevented our living standards from being higher. Over half the nation's wealth is stolen every year and given to people who produce no wealth, it's burned on corporate welfare, socialist handouts, and killing people. Easily 100 trillion dollars has been squandered by the US government in the last 200 years, like Doug Casey says, we should be living in Star Trek, instead people are scrounging to get by.
Gary Fielder

Posted: Nov 28 2011, 11:30 PM

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10724 Chris is more than capable of defending his own article and site, but he's making a simple point. I get it and I think it's hilarious too. The Venus Project could make sense, if our human nature was to not care about "our" property--but we do. Certainly, we have a collective sprite, but its more tribal than global. Sharing in small groups benefits our survival. Sharing outside of constructed circles, strains our resources, and limits our ability to care for ourselves and our immediate love ones. It may feed some altruistic need, but it will never be the bases of a sustainable economic system.
So, sure enough, as soon as the "pie in the sky" communist feel they're not getting their share of "resources," they react like all of us other flawed, self protective humans. The point, I think, Chris is trying to make is that these people behind the Venus Project are hypocrites. It's ok to want to protect your property, unless you're out there advocating that there shouldn't be "property." Then, you just look stupid and pathetic.
Just remember this: There are 20 million people in Mexico City, alone, and not all of them are intellectual, socialist. That's one city that has to find a way to feed, and then take care of the waste of all those people. Cairo: 17 million. Beijing: 19 million. New York City Metro Area: 19 million. That's 4 cities. In the end its going to take a lot more than half baked ideas like the Venus Project to even start to solve our long term problems.
My suggestion: research cold fusion.
Dennis in MI

Posted: Nov 29 2011, 9:13 AM

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24213 The time in American history when we had all that growth and less of that government was the time it took us to use up the resources taken from the natives. I don't think it's a coincidence that when the free ride ended the system is stressed and failing.
Our entire history as a country has never been free market. That is fiction. Beads for Manhattan was free trade not free market. Un and under regulated capitalism is corporatism, not free market. Rand at least, was total fiction and believing in her world is CRAZY. Austrian economics? Has austerity in the face of recession(imo depression) ever worked for anyone but a bankster?
david

Posted: Nov 29 2011, 10:00 AM

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138130 "My suggestion: research cold fusion" Your solution gary is 'technology'. That is the Venus Projects answer too, so maybe will should all laugh at your hypocrisy as you try to support chris's attempt to chastise venus project. No doubt like stefbot you sit on your comfy couch and deride Occupy too. My suggestion to you and all other stef-drones is that you get of your high horses, abandon your scoffing laughter at all others that are exploring new ways to evolve themselves and society. Take a good look at yourselves, what are you propagating, whats your hypocracies, because for sure there is plenty of it or are you guys the 'chosen enlightened ones' after all.
Ha! I laugh at myself just now, its been a long day and I guess it feels good to let of a little steam. Sorry if I offend.
I will say though Gary, I agree with you and venus project, it is likely to be new technologies that allow evolutionary breakthroughs that change societies, not some stuffy nose Austrian School boys theorising upon an economic paradigm. As it has always been before, Technology delivers the potential for what ever society we then can choose to create. And when there is abundance as in the 'pretty wild west' then any kind of political/economic system can be successful, at least until the source of abundance becomes scarce, and then you get to see whats really going on and the failings of whatever the economic or social structure is in place. Because nothing is perfect people and that includes A L. And if you really are under the delusion that A L will be the ultimate system/destination, then imagine how things are going to be some time when a select few humans are going to have to be jettisoned of this planet for a generational flight to some planet light years away. For this to happen it will probably take the selfless dedication of all the rest of the humans that will be left behind doomed to die on an unlivable planet. By then Gary your limited ethnocentric consciousness will be ancient history and America's rise and full will be no more thought of then the Roman empire, maybe the folly of it all will be laughed at, maybe its the human endeavor will be respected.
A little story if I may, that hopefully you can laugh at too. I was in Russia after
Glasnost visiting a friend who was there as a professor of economic from the west to help advise Russia on how to become capitalist. He was one of many such professors and business people sent by very many capitalist countries and companies. You might think that since they were all experienced capitalist that they would be offering the same advise. Well I tell ya, they could hardly agree on anything, all had to much Vodka and had horrible arguements at parties. It was a joke. I warn anybody believing in any school of economics to be the salvation of all to think again. Humans are far more interesting and complex for any one economic formula to resolve.
Chris I'm sorry I cant more fully address your reply I really must just sleep now. Good Night Brother, Ha!
david

Posted: Nov 29 2011, 10:11 AM

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138130 Dennis just read your post, love it. Yes I was going to address the Indians story in Chris's free market story too. If it wasn't for the tragic sadness of that supposed free market it might be laughable. I wonder if chris can offer us any other example of proof that these austrian boys aren't just pulling our legs.
David

Posted: Nov 30 2011, 5:47 AM

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138130 Hi my anarchist brother Chris. not heard from you and thought MAYBE you are turning into 'integral philosophy' and perhaps learning about '1st tier' thinking and 'Orange meme'. Couple of recommendations if you are, - theres the main website called integrallife.com. You will quickly see that this is very complex and wide in scope. Please know that you can sign up free for the first month and peruse at your leisure. But two things to recommend relevant to what we have been covering. Firstly there is the Daily Evolver series with Jeff Salzman and David Roiden theres some political narrative that may be new for you hear . And secondly as you are a fan of Ayn Rand, there is a 6 hr long talk with Nathan Brandon. I know you would have heard stefan talk with Nathan, well this discussion so much more. Ken Wilber is a genius of our time and his talk with Nathan is one between men, making stefans talk look like a boy trying hard to meet with a man. Sweet but wholely different.
I'd also like to recommend the book 'Boomeritis' as I feel it will appeal to your sence of humour and is I reckon the best book as an introduction to Integral philosophy. I'm confident you will enjoy all of it, but won't be surprised if you prove me wrong.
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