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Article posted Jan 31 2011, 5:00 PM

Category: Commentary

Source: YouTube

Peter Joseph's Response to Stefan Molyneux [Zeitgeist: Moving Forward]

50 minutes of Marxist platitudes. (~7:50) He asks why should someone have to buy a cheap watch from the 99 cent store when they could simply get a "peak efficiency watch" (as determined by some bureaucrat). Again, this is like his idea that it's more efficient to grow crops in huge apartment buildings hanging the food upside down because it uses 75% less water. Totally ignored is the cost of the apartment building, the resources involved in building it, and the manpower involved in its construction which could be doing something productive but instead is being squandered by some communist central planner who thinks he knows best. The arrogance of central planning statists astounds me. - Chris, InfoLib

Update: There's also two-bit psychoanalyzing! Yay!

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zeitgeistdominicana@yahoo.com

Posted: Jan 31 2011, 11:01 PM

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76119

chris, I have to say this is the first comment I post here. However I have to say i admire your work here and you have been a great helper in all my research I been doing all along as far as a source of info. I have to say that I am a bit skeptic about every bit of info that come into my senses this day. I have gathered over 20 giga of info that will make 99.9% of people around the world reconsider all they learning about everything. Anyway to my point I go, it seems to me that you tend to judge out of contest when it come to the venus project or the zeitgeist movement. May I suggest you spent a good week looking into it from a human counsious point of view and you just may consider your negativity toward it. thak you for all.

Anonymous

Posted: Jan 31 2011, 11:24 PM

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98247

UN Agenda 21 seeks to replace all religions with the Gaya/Luciferian religion. That was what the first Zeitgeist intended to do -- weaken your belief in Christianity by suggesting Jesus is a sun god.

This new Zeitgeist film is against the free markets. It seeks a Marxist world government that uses the environment as a ploy to get people onboard with their corrupt-as-fuck program.

UN Agenda 21 people. Look it up and learn.

That little fucker who makes these Zeitgeist films needs to be imprisoned for life for trying this fucking stunt.

Anonymous

Posted: Feb 01 2011, 1:02 AM

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652

I have to admit that as crazy as his changes sound, he proved he is not a marxist, just a dreamer. He goes and read crazy religious books but he is unable to mention the fact that the same crazy authors support the illuminati idea and that the world is being dominated by minds completely out of our control. His very interesting ideas will not be implemented unless the whole world goes back to the stone age and we start all over. Also the VENUS PROJECT?... should have found a less pagan name.

Anonymous

Posted: Feb 01 2011, 1:13 AM

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70178

chris, you sure of jealous of this guy. you've been crying about it for three days.

but you are as wrong about everything you've criticized in this video, as you are wrong about your opinions on global warming.

and 98247, there's not really such a thing as a free market if in western civilization. capitalism corrupts the system. some people will always be able to keep playing the game. but the socialism that capitalism brings must be allowed to occur, otherwise it will all come crashing down (like it is now)

Chris

Posted: Feb 01 2011, 2:07 AM

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To zeitgeistdominicana: I don't have any particular negativity toward the Zeitgeist movement, I just thoroughly disagree with their marxist economic outlook which is totally wrong when it comes to the free market and economics. (See our Intro to Austrian Economics: http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=30611)

I want a free society, I want to live in a free society, I want myself to be free and for others to be free. I think the majority of people feel this way, the only question is how do we best achieve freedom.

I am against coercion and using violence to achieve social ends, the Zeitgeist project says no one should be allowed to have private property and own their own things, everything must be communally owned and shared. That's communism, I don't care how many times they say it's not.

I believe in a natural private property order, some call it anarcho-capitalism, some free market anarchy, others libertarianism, the central tenant is there is no violent monopoly of force controlling the entire society (a government). Zeitgeist is a centrally planned dictatorship and Peter Joseph even says in his film "nature is a dictatorship" in some weird allusion to the idea the Venus Project's one size fits all theories cannot be disagreed with because they're "scientific" and "in line with nature."

Nature is absolutely not a dictatorship. Who is in charge of nature? Forgive me if I don't see some dictator bossing everyone around when I look out my window. If nature is anything, it's anarchy, there is no ruler bossing everyone around. Each animal has it's own best interests to look out for. Depending on each animals nature, they act differently and interact with other animals differently.

I'm very familiar with the Zeitgeist Movement and I have been for years, I remember posting the first Zeitgeist video from Google video on InfoLib when it had 1200 views total. I really liked their work until it got mixed with the Venus Project and their marxist economic order. I have nothing against them advocating their world view, I'm just not going to agree with something I know is wrong and thoroughly disagree with in every way. I think TVP is totally antithetical to freedom and a free society, I want to be left alone to live as I see fit, I do not want to be some drone in Jacques Fresco's centrally planned dictatorship.

Anonymous

Posted: Feb 01 2011, 7:34 AM

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89133

Chris I don't get your blind dismissal of Peter Joseph's arguments. I did live in the manifestation of central planning, let me tell you all that it is nothing but an other form of exploitation of the masses by some other dictator just like any other socio-economic system. I don't even want to argue with you guys you are so clueless, I'm just going to say this one thing: we only have one Earth, and by "we" I mean us and the generations to come. I keep thinking that visionaries might as well talk to a wall. Don't you worry though nature will kick our butts sooner then most of you hope, this argument of economic systems will be so irrelevant and outright pathetic by then. I think we missed the boat a long time ago.

Anonymous

Posted: Feb 01 2011, 10:55 AM

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89164

peter rules, ate this debunker for breakfast

Chris

Posted: Feb 01 2011, 11:07 AM

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It's not a blind dismissal, it's a reasoned, calm, cool, collected, well thought out dismissal as a result of logical fallacies and incorrect assumptions based innately in the Zeitgeist philosophy.

I wonder, have you really thought through everything which their philosophy entails? Do you really have any idea whether or not it would work? Do you have any idea how it would be made a reality, what steps they would have to take?

It seems to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, they've done absolutely nothing in the real world and taken no steps to make their philosophy and dreamworld a reality. I haven't seen them build any apartment buildings to then empty out and grow food in them upside down. If that was really the most efficient way to grow food (because "they only need 25% as much water") then I would think it'd be a profitable (er, "sustainable") venture for them to undertake. Might it be because it's a ridiculous uneconomic pipe dream and massive waste of resources they haven't taken such an undertaking?

Anonymous

Posted: Feb 01 2011, 11:13 AM

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89164

you people are blind, even more you are so scared of the marxism that your comments are utterly ridicilous and absurd.

zeitgeist rules. i had same dream since i was a kid. when i saw zeitgeist 1 and 2 my first reaction was "someone read my brain and showed me what i want". and like fresco, if i ever get to the 90-is, i'll still have same dream.

get out of your free market/communism dual type of thinking and see the world how it should be done.

zeitgeistdominicana@yahoo.com

Posted: Feb 01 2011, 11:31 AM

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76119

Chris you need to step out of the box and look from the outside in. wake up son. you, I and a whole entire generation have been deceived.

Chris

Posted: Feb 01 2011, 11:48 AM

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"get out of your free market/communism dual type of thinking and see the world how it should be done. "

...run by a super computer with all the world's resources controlled by a central planned dictatorship of people who think it's better to grow crops upside down in apartment buildings rather than in soil? No thanks.

"Chris you need to step out of the box and look from the outside in. wake up son. you, I and a whole entire generation have been deceived."

...or maybe you need to learn about economics to understand how ridiculous TVP is on it's face? Is it possible you're wrong? Can you even entertain the possibility that someone else could understand a subject better than you and see through base marxist propaganda and call it for what it is? Is that a possibility? Or you just have it all figured out?

Please tell me this, do you think growing food in apartment buildings is a more efficient use of resources than growing food in soil,simply because once the massive apartment building is done it will use less water?

Anonymous

Posted: Feb 01 2011, 12:46 PM

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70178

chris chris chris

"people who think it's better to grow crops upside down in apartment buildings rather than in soil? No thanks."

do you know anything at all about vertical farming? how can you seriously be against something like that? which part of your odd agenda forces you to be against vertical farming specifically?

there are zero valid reasons to be against vertical farming. and in fact, growing in a medium other than soil IS better. in every way... an indoor farm gets 5x (and more) the production, with less chemicals, with a great deal less water, and virtually zero pesticides.

so since there is absolutely zero valid reason to be anti-vertical farming, what about "those people" who think that? what else do those people think. please tell.

Chris

Posted: Feb 01 2011, 1:10 PM

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"an indoor farm gets 5x (and more) the production, with less chemicals, with a great deal less water, and virtually zero pesticides."

Why doesn't anyone use it then?

Anonymous

Posted: Feb 01 2011, 1:31 PM

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76119

Hey I think this site has been highjacked or brainwashed. I honestely believed that Chris was a bit smarter than me. I now think, Chris lost his credibility. And hey sorry man due to the current monetary system I couldn't make any donation. My heart ,mind and soul tells me that a non-monetary system is better for humanity and this pieces of star dust we all live on.

Chris

Posted: Feb 01 2011, 2:06 PM

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So that's your answer?

Anonymous

Posted: Feb 01 2011, 3:20 PM

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9423

Peter joseph never mentions the government, not once, weird eh. I would like to know where the government fits in to his neo-communist utopia...

People are free to not get a job and not join the market system, they are free to go move to the forest and build a house out of the trees and live off the land (as long as the government does not disallow it).

The correct answer to peter joseph comments that you can not get best quality goods in a market system. Of course you can, we have some of the best quality goods produced by the market system that are available, you might not find them at walmart. But you can find them and they are made. Look at the amazon kindle, what a masterpiece of the market system. The point that the market system does not make the best quality goods possible is a fallacy. Because his argument is based in utopian, pie in the sky arguments, as usual. ie if you remove profit then everything will produced to last as long as possible obsessed to as cheaply and poorly manufactured as possible. There is just no mechanism that he has explained that would allow for millions of people to own an amazon kindle in a non market system. Peter joseph is saying that without the market system, if we all lived in communist utopia, everyone would have rolex watches and computers that upgrade forever... laughable. "peak efficiency" lol

The market system has a way of dealing with peak resources and that is high prices, so i do not realy see how he can use some sort of, save the planet argument to his everyone should have only the best quality products that last forever argument.

it is not the market system that stifles technology, it is the government and mechanisms like IP that hold back technology.

"You failed as an intellectual" Actually peter, if you do not investigate your sources you could be taking in information that comes from question sources. This is all a major part of discernment. While i agree that you should take in the information and consider and not pigeon hole people, it is vital to investigate the people that are trying to give you information. There is a thin line between being open minded and being gullible. Discernment is not only deciding what information you want to accept or take on board, but what information you choose to even take in. The trick is to remain open minded and not fill your head with mis information at the same time.

Peter jospehs analysis of sebastians, "insecurities" this realy shows peters colours this one, because that is how sebastian is, if you have ever watched his podcasts then you know the guy always has funny antidotes etc. Mr joseph realy comes across as a over analytical know it all in this one.

Here we goo, the guy mentions the state for the first time. HAHAHA. Says that if it was not for the state then the free market would have self destructed. This would be funny if this punk was not making these bs documentaries misinforming millions of people... counter intelligence anyone?

"The socially dawinistic attribute of this system produces nothing but corruption and if it was not for state regulation and the legal system... we would have circus of monkeys running around in circles throwing faeces at each other... trying to steal everything and anything that they can... that is what this system actually is... and this fall back...<laugh> that "it" is the state... is one of the weakest unsupported notions... taxation all this "crap" that they throw out there... has no basis on anything... if it was not for the state this system would have self destructed a long long time ago."

After hearing that speech I think we know what we are dealing with here.

Anonymous

Posted: Feb 01 2011, 7:20 PM

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9423

The guy speaks so fast but when you read what he says, you can see he contradicts himself with this point.

"To put it very shortly the idea that there is efficiency, is only efficiency in the sense of the conditioning of the culture and what they assume to be normality and what they want to buy or not buy and what they think that they want or not want. Which is completely culturally relevant.... the fallacy is the wants that people have are generated and imposed upon them, so there is very little integrity on relying on what the public automatically assumes they want, because the public fail to see how conditioned they have become. The bottom line here, very simply and there are many different angles i could go on to debunk the idea that price efficiency is actually an empirical notion for the movement of goods and services. The bottom line here is that you have to have a physical reference.. ok... it does not matter what people want..ok. i know that is a radical statement but you can condition an entire culture to want pet rocks and what if rocks were scarce, are you going to wipe out all the rocks because everyone wants one? that is a ridiculous example but it gets the point across. Price efficiency has nothing to do with anything tangible and in a real society price efficiency is thrown out the window and it is based on strategic culmination with the public understanding their relationship with the environment. In other words people�s wants or values are adapted to fit the natural world and there is no other way for us to come in harmony and survive if we don't do this." - Peter Joseph

Science is going to dictate to everyone their needs and that is the only way mankind with reach harmony and survive. There wants however are all fake and made up by their fake culture.

I would like to know how art would fit in to his communist utopia. Would music be determined to be a want and not a need and be reduced to the pile of unnecessary materials goods that are rooted in fake culture?

Anonymous

Posted: Feb 02 2011, 5:10 AM

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70178

chris, millions of people use hydroponics...

those tomatoes you ate? hydroponics/hydroponics

you're simply clueless, chris, or you are ignoring reality, because this is fucking common sense

you're against renewable energy too it seems, because in your warped mind, environmentalism means you're all for carbon trading. and because of carbon trading you are always in insane mode when it comes to the reality of climate change.

Anonymous

Posted: Feb 03 2011, 3:31 PM

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76166

TZM/TVP relies upon people's continued ignorance regarding the fundamentals of economics. So Zeitards, please, do your homework and learn some Austrian before you post anymore clueless non-arguments. Peter Joseph's "movement" also relies on the faith of the domesticated human; a product years of statist indoctrination, where the need/want/belief in and of caretakers/masters is beat into the heads of would be individuals. TZM/TVP is a marketing campaign to sell collectivism to a more politically aware audience. It's roots are in the UN, a government, who's answer to any and all problems, like all governments, is more government. TVP is the ultimate government. I would imagine Zeitards pride themselves for having risen above "sheeple" status, but it's their support for the movement that reveals just how untrue that is.

Anonymous

Posted: Feb 04 2011, 12:26 PM

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9650

Controlled opposition, false advertising and CULTural beLIEfs, like all propaganda, must be mostly true or people would not even listen.

They are selling peace, freedom, community and the idea of harmony. We all want to get along with each other. We like to be liked.

Stefan's not much better on some points. He loses me when he starts quoting the statists like Socrates.

Hey, nobody is perfect.

Why don't we stop giving our moral support to the state, meet up on some site like facebook and work out what we all need to get along and be happy some of the time.

Then we could all stop paying police to lock our pot smoking friends in prison and hiring soldiers to go kill other people for our owners. We can then program our own central computer. No garbage in, no garbage out.

Do you still need a master to tell you what to think, a leader to tell you what to do, a nanny state to care for you from cradle to grave? Wouldn't you rather participate?

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