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Article posted Jan 26 2011, 5:09 PM Category: General Source: YouTube Print

ZEITGEIST: Moving Backwards (Communism with Magic Robots Pt.2)



Not sure if I should even post this, it's all "fixed pie" Marxist propaganda, coaxed in some supposedly anti-government rhetoric, don't even get me started on the guilt mongering (just look at the image of the starving Africans which right now is the preview frame, that's, of course, your fault). If you don't understand real economics, it's easy to fall prey to such nonsense.

"Capitalism" is blamed for statism, Keynesian consumptionism is confused with free market exchange. Determinist propaganda when it comes to diseases (disguised as anti-determinism). Human nature is supposedly malleable and we're all blank slates and blah blah blah. It's too much nonsense to even respond to.

The first line of deep thought is some feel good psychobabble saying how people will never be satisfied looking to acquire all sorts of stuff. Obviously that's true, once one need is satisfied, you want to search for more things and accomplish new things, why is that bad?

Can someone please point me to someone who is completely satisfied in all things forever perpetually?

Human life experiences change, things change, wants change, needs change, humans change. One day you like drinking soda pop, the next you get sick and change to drinking water and juice. How would being completely satisfied drinking soda pop your whole life be advantageous? We're all just supposed to be perpetual plebs enjoying the present solely and taking no steps to improve our lot and experience future joys. God forbid you experience self-reflection and decide you'd like to change for the better, clearly there's something wrong with you because you don't realize you're perfect as is.

Adapting to change and progressing through life and experiencing the ups and downs is part of living and part of life. Being some lobotomized robot who is experiencing nirvana all the time seems to me to be, #1 boring, #2 not living.

Unfortunately I just don't care enough to do a full response and actually watch the entire movie, I only half-watched the first 20 minutes. I would recommend reading The Anti-Capitalistic Mentality by Ludwig von Mises and studying Austrian economics. If you really want to move forward, watch this. - Chris, InfoLib

Update: Holy god I actually skipped through to an hour and five minutes in and he attacks Ludwig von Mises and Hayek! Good god this is retarded. Apparently, Africa is some free market utopia and not a socialist hellhole like we all thought, people are starving because of Mises's economic theories which no governments follow and all universally ignore, not because they're socialist hellholes with zero economic freedom. Keynesianism apparently is Austrianism despite one being a coercive central planner and the other a free-marketeer. This is painfully stupid.

Update: Skipped again, at 1:49:00 he says "nature is a dictatorship" and says we need some centrally planned dictatorship with perfect information, I guess it will be run by Jacques Fresco and Peter Joseph because apparently they've solved all the problems of the world "in theory." This is an epic fail.





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Comments 41 - 57 of 57 Add Comment < Page of 3
Christofferson

Posted: Jan 29 2011, 1:24 AM

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7522 The real question is... why should I have to pay to live on a planet i was born on? I agree with voluntarism, but why need money when empathy and love will move us forward as a race.
Tana

Posted: Jan 29 2011, 3:23 AM

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98109 I'm in agreement Chris. This thing was so full of shit I couldn't even finish watching it.
TimAng

Posted: Jan 29 2011, 5:33 PM

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1 hour in. There are two problems I've seen so far:

1. The argument that all monetary systems must be rejected.

This stance is taken after combining traditional commodity-based monetary systems with modern fiat-based monetary systems. If one sequence of arguments had to be made against the commodity-based monetary system and a separate one made against the fiat-based monetary system, the filmmakers would have revealed the antagonistic nature of the two fundamentally opposed monetary systems, and their attempt to make a single blanket argument rejecting both of them would have failed.

2. The argument that all market activity from production to investment is destructive and immoral.

This stance is taken after combining private sector activities with public sector activities. If one sequence of arguments had to be made against purely private sector activities and a separate one made against the activities of the government itself and corporations working for the government, the filmmakers would have revealed the dichotomy between the symbiotic relationship of creative everyday people voluntarily producing life-enriching goods and services for their mutual benefit, and the parasitic relationship of coercive government agencies forcibly extorting resources and labor to be re-directed into goods and services that only benefit certain individuals selected by the government, as well as the government itself, to the detriment of everyone else.

For the record though, personally speaking, I don't think the fans of Zeitgeist are actively seeking to deceive or manipulate anyone. They genuinely believe that "the monetary system" and "the market" are bad because they have not been exposed to sound-money anarcho-capitalist ideas yet. Peter Joseph and Jacques Fresco have obviously chosen their side, and for whatever reason they choose Socialism, but I think a lot of the Zeitgeist fans are only going along with it because this is the first thing that "woke them up." There are definitely a lot of people in the Zeitgeist community who are more Libertarian than Socialist, they probably just don't know it yet.
Lygeia

Posted: Jan 29 2011, 8:54 PM

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752 I just found this ungodly weirdness linking Jacques Fresco to the Raelian UFO cult:

http://raelianews.org/news.php?extend.347
Anonymous

Posted: Jan 30 2011, 8:42 AM

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89164 last tiume here i said sonmething positive about zeitgeist 3, and i was deleted from this comments.

Good to know that you are as much as democratic as those bankars and police that you spit on so joyfully
Avramel

Posted: Jan 30 2011, 12:54 PM

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Zeitgeist is not socialism... I for one, am living in a country that went through 50 years of communism and is now in it's 21st year of democracy. One thing I can tell you is that communism was a bad period... that's what everybody is saying... I do not know because I was born in the year after the revolution. But, after 21 years of capitalism, more than 50% of the population is saying another thing: today things are worse than before... So, the bottom line is that both capitalism and communism are bad... We need to look forward to a future were Paris Hilton doesn't live better than Stephen Hawking... Where children from all around the globe, because it's not just Africa anymore, are starving... We are still in a crisis, but we will be hit again somewhere between 2014 and 2018... We need to act fast so that we will keep the infrastructure intact... There are nume
David Kelly

Posted: Jan 30 2011, 8:26 PM

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122108 Great to see so many impassioned points of view on the above video. Comforting to hear the earnest perspectives on how the world could be a better place. Regardless of the implementation it is clear to me, as I hope it would be to others, that we need a societal structure that nurtures humanity, that assists people to live full and healthy lives without the fear of war. We need a society that assists its citizens without the need to make a profit or strategically enhance one's market share. In short we need a world that cares.
Lygeia

Posted: Jan 30 2011, 8:58 PM

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752 This seems to be the inspiration for this film:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:8Dcxa3JBWAMJ:www.mrlevek.com/northkorea.htm+%3Ca%20href=
Chris

Posted: Jan 30 2011, 9:51 PM

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Thanks Lygeia, great pictures. To David Kelly and Avramel, please see our Introduction to Austrian Economics, http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=30611 , I think you'll find it very enlightening, check out the comic book "How an Economy Grows and Why It Doesn't."
Chris

Posted: Jan 30 2011, 9:53 PM

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To Anon 89164: Your comment was not deleted http://www.informationliberation.com/index.php?id=34190&comments=20#24507
Anonymous

Posted: Jan 31 2011, 3:08 AM

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194176 "Unfortunately I just don't care enough to do a full response and actually watch the entire movie"

That really does undermine your entire point. Try watching the WHOLE movie, and not just half-watching it. Jesus, do people really need to remind you of this?
Anonymous

Posted: Jan 31 2011, 11:24 AM

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98247 The plan is already figured out. Go read it at http://www.un.org/esa/dsd/agenda21/(UN AGENDA 21)

The Zeitgeist content has attacked Christianity and the free market system. Zeitgeist is on board with UN Agenda 21.

As long as 25% of the world's population is on board -- which they are already -- this will become our reality.Such is the nature of social mechanisms. Anyone who does not follow the program will be an outsider to the system and will be isolated.
Anonymous

Posted: Jan 31 2011, 11:28 AM

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98247 RESPOSTING THE UN AGENDA 21 LINK --

http://www.un.org/esa/dsd/agenda21/
rxg

Posted: Feb 04 2011, 6:12 PM

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7254 wow. this post and especially the comments following it have given me plenty to think about.

i've been a fan of informationliberation for quite a while now and have always found this site to be a useful tool in staying informed and retaining credibility when arguing points, since many of the articles posted here are taken from "legitimate" news sources. however, i found this dismissal of the zeitgeist/venus project rather distasteful. for honest's sake, i will note that i am involved with my local zeitgeist movement chapter but my negative view is only partially attributed to that association. i fully believe that to grow as an individual one must accept criticisms of his/her ideas and attempt, despite wounded pride, to constantly redefine his/her beliefs. with that said, i don't take offense to the criticisms but rather the manner in which they were presented. i believe that certain points within the post likely have validity but they could have been made in a way which would allow people to be far more receptive to the argument.

after reading the comments on here i will have a ton of research to do, particularly regarding this fresco/UN connection, as it is something i have not heard of until now. i will readily admit that i have limited knowledge about the different 'isms' and their exact workings, mainly because i feel ALL of them are unnecessary and harmful to the freedom of humanity. i long for the days of nomads and tribal societies and arguing over pointless ideologies created by deceased minds is merely a distraction. however, i was curious about the following statement from chris, regarding capitalism :

"Actually, it gives people the opportunity to voluntarily trade their labor for someone else's capital."

i have issue with the word 'voluntarily' here. sure, on the surface, i voluntarily head to my idiotic job filled with mindless tasks that perpetuate this fucked up system but it is voluntary only in the sense that i could choose to freeze to death on the streets instead. i do not consider something actually voluntary if choosing not to participate leads to severe negative consequences. as long as we have a system even remotely similar to our current one we will never be truly free so i'm not sure i understand this promotion of capitalism in any sense.

as for the entire zeitgeist attraction, i will second what i saw another individual write about it being very beneficial in helping millions of people understand the corruption underlying the american government as well as being the only relatively coherent offer of a solution. do i think it is perfect? absolutely not. are the people that i know in the movement open to all suggestions for altering the end result? absolutely. i find it ridiculous that even amongst the people who agree that this world cannot continue as is there is such highly passionate derision. it gives me very little hope for humanity. i think it would benefit us all to keep in mind that we are all essentially fighting for the same common goal of freedom.
Anonymous

Posted: Feb 25 2011, 4:03 PM

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87208 Of course the Venus project is a grand idea, it's not a problem of 'who will program the computer', it will program itself, it will see resources at point a that are needed at point b and move them there, the local computers will know what to do with it.
The whole project IS feasable, will be vastly more efficient, and we will be rid of the worst religion of all: money.
Money is a tool, a means to an end, nothing else.
Everyone will work part-time keeping the machines running, & will have more time for family etc, and being well educated, everyone will be able to do this. Yes there are problems & i know what you're going to say, but while it may not be Utopia,it will be way better than the 'economic' shit mess we have now.
L.S.

Posted: Feb 25 2011, 8:16 PM

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98247, do you remember when they deleted the agenda, from every site that had provided links? When I found it, courtesy of the "UnknownZone," I downloaded it, forwarded it to all of my contacts, then, burnt 20 copies. So if you ever need a copy -- let me know. I also have a copy of the population document, referenced on page 30 -- if you're interested.....

*************************************************************************
I watched this full movie. Notice how quickly they skimmed over the fact, that in the regional distribution centers, someone else will decide if you need a product.

All in favor of Zeitgeistopia, please, step into these gas chambers, I mean, "sustainable cities."
almost nogov

Posted: Mar 24 2011, 2:29 PM

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24199 An hour and thirteen mins into the video this guy mentions this article in the Wall Street Journal called "Lessons From The Brain-Damaged Investor" and says its about how people with brain damage do better in investing then someone with out brain damage because they're not afraid to screw people over.... Did he even read the article?!?!? Its about how people with brain damage do better because they can look at risk with out involving their personal emotions like being scared they'll lose their money and when they do lose their money they are more indifferent. read it yourself http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB112190164023291519,00.html

Makes me question what else they distorted.
Comments 41 - 57 of 57 < Page of 3


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