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Article posted Aug 24 2007, 12:04 AM

Category: Resistance

Source: Wogan

David Icke on Wogan

A powerful interview with David Icke

"We laugh at sheep because sheep just follow the one in front.

'Ah stupid sheep!'

We humans have out sheeped the sheep, because at least the sheep need a sheep dog to keep them in line.

Humans keep each other in line. And they do it by ridiculing or condemning anyone who commits the crime, and that's what its become, of being different.

I had a choice at that point, I could have ended up -- faced with that scale of ridicule -- and ended up shaking in the corner. Or I could have said, as I did, 'laugh, condemn, I don't give a damn. This is me, and if you don't like me, well that's bad news, because this is the only me there is.'

And I refuse to conform and be bowed by the ridicule. And what it does, when you step out of the little box of 'what will other people think?' 'how can I put this in a way that other people won't think I'm crazy?' you then realize how small of a box you've actually been living in!"

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dave

Posted: Aug 24 2007, 2:12 AM

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I hadn't seen that, thank you to the host, most refreshing.

Many years ago I sat drinking coffee in London waiting to meet someone and I watched the people go by. One moment a chap in a bowler hat, the next a chap with a haircut several inches high. In the few minutes I was watching it was as if I had seen the human version of Noah's ark preparing to load. No one paid attention to difference, it was normal and the individual was king. What a wonderful place I thought, I remember saying thank you then too.

Now the media plays a game, it means ridiculing people who are different. As it happens, David Icke was right, suggesting America is land of the free is an absurd and childish suggestion, if not an outright lie.

It isn't an accident, this is mind control at work, conditioning people to conform to an artificial reality. That reality, that encourages people to look down on someone is the Hitler game of untermenschen that tries to legitimise the most depraved behaviour mankind is capable of.

Thank you to David Icke too.
"It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by the majority of people." - Giordano Bruno

Britain today:
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=62902&in_page_id=34

America today:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6e2648ea-5014-11dc-a6b0-0000779fd2ac.html

friendstacy

Posted: Aug 24 2007, 6:18 AM

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but it doesn't always work. never worked for me, not 13 years of public school, standing in line, following orders, getting in trouble every time I did something on my own volition, no matter how hard I tried to blend in with the herd, I was still outcast and ridiculed.

Only recently did I discover why I don't fit in, why I never did fit in. It's because the majority of my family, on both my mother's and father's sides, is Native American, and everything I do and everything I believe, deep down inside, was and is forbidden, stereotyped in such a way as to make us believe it is wrong, ever since the assimilation/genocide of my ancestors. They can call it "relocation" and greatly underreport the number of people affected by it, but eventually the truth will shine through all the chinks between the lies, because the lies don't create a complete picture. Anyone looking for answers will find the truth.

I was so completely and totally convinced that there was something wrong with being who I am, that it hurt me to go out in the sun because it always makes my skin red! I always had to cover myself with clothing and lots of sunblock, even for the slightest amount of time spent outdoors. OMG! I do have red skin, it's not sunburn, and it doesn't hurt anymore!!

I don't think I'm so alone, really. I think many many more people are demanding the right to define themselves rather than allowing what other people think of them to define who they are. But you won't find them standing in line in public schools or on the almighty TV, you gotta go out and interact with people to find real people, doing their own thing, and being happy. Funny thing, that. Once you realize you aren't the only one doing your own thing, it becomes that much easier to give the finger to the status-quo.

globalstomp

Posted: Aug 24 2007, 3:31 PM

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The status-quo don't even know who they are. They are so busy with trends and friends that they haven't even taken the steps to find out who they really are and I'm not talking about the storebranded version being peddled on the trollop tube.

The controlling elite set-up for the sheeple all kinds of diversionary trinkets and bobbles to keep them amused and away from reality.

I have never followed trends and I don't care if they think I'm out of place because that's OK for me and I don't care to be a walking billboard advertisement for some corporation that makes my clothing.

I am disgusted by how people think they are going to represent individuality if they get their tatto's and piercings and wear the latest goth style of clothing.

This blind leading the blind is how the mark of the beast will be initiated so easily. Just make it cool sounding and turn it into a trend and there you go everybody gladly but unknowingly taking the mark.

They don't see that they are being manipulated into these trends of thought by the trollop tube?

For those of you who don't mind looking and acting like all the others give us a big baaaahhh.

J.P.

Posted: Aug 24 2007, 11:14 PM

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71196

According to David Icke and many conspiracy theories, power is no longer decentralized. But could the conspiracy theories actually be the ultimate conspiracy which serves to make us feel like we're not in control when we really are? How many of you who are Americans will not vote in the next presidential election because you think the election is already fixed, or you think the candidate you endorse has no chance at winning, or you think political parties are two branches of the same tree, or feel you have to choose between the lesser of two evils?

dave

Posted: Aug 25 2007, 12:20 AM

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"An election is nothing more than an advance auction of stolen goods." - Ambrose Bierce

"History, despite its wrenching pain, cannot be unlived, but if faced with courage, need not be lived again." - Maya Angelou

Chris

Posted: Aug 25 2007, 12:32 AM

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"could the conspiracy theories actually be the ultimate conspiracy which serves to make us feel like we're not in control when we really are?"

Depends what "conspiracy theory" you speak of. If it is some fatalist trash then obviously yes, but the majority of the conspiracies covered on this site are not theories, they are simply reality. There is no point lying to yourself and pretending everything is fine when it is not. Acknowledging reality (how ever negative it may be) empowers you, it does not make you helpless.

And no, I will not vote, the state as a whole is a hoax.

J.P.

Posted: Aug 25 2007, 3:40 AM

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71196

I'm not lying to myself and pretending everything is fine. If I thought that the best way to affect change in our society is to drop out of it then I would be lying to myself and pretending. If I thought that my interpretation of the subjective experience of reality was the only relevant one then I would be lying to myself and pretending. If I believed everything I read on this website then I would be lying to myself and pretending.

If you're not interested in voting then why have you been posting so many supportive articles about congressman Ron Paul?

To Dave:

"Bad officials are elected by good citizens who do not vote." - George Jean Nathan

"People who don't vote have no line of credit with people who are elected and thus pose no threat to those who act against our interests." - Marian Wright Edelman

"I believe that our American system works as long as you participate in it. You must vote and make your voice heard. Otherwise you will be left out." - Mari-Luci Jaramillo

"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." - John Quincy Adams

"The margin is narrow, but the responsibility is clear." - John F. Kennedy

dave

Posted: Aug 25 2007, 4:09 AM

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The Gold Rush

David Icke woke up. Facing ridicule and censorship he spoke out. He returned to Wogan to receive well-earned applause. He makes a difference.

Aaron Russo is someone that was invited to join the elite; instead he decided to go his own way and passed on the same wish to all people. He leaves behind truth, he leaves behind a message for the American people.

The legacy of Aaron Russo
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5420753830426590918&hl=en

All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

If anyone wants the video in a different format to send round and needs help please advise.

Freedom to fascism
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173&q=freedom+to+fascism&total=1021&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

Interview
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3254488777215293198&q=freedom+to+fascism&total=1021&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

home site
http://www.freedomtofascism.com/

friendstacy

Posted: Aug 25 2007, 4:44 PM

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J.P. - our "right" to vote only makes us complicit in the crimes committed by our government against humanity (us included). Voting is a lie, a trick to make us think we have some sort of control over what the government does, it also places the blame on us when the government invariably continues to abuse the people it claims to serve. My vote was never counted in the last several elections, why should the next one be any different? They tell us who won, and the sheeple believe it without question all because they seent it on the TeeVee.

This same government has so many ridiculous laws that every one of us is a lawbreaker in one way or another at one time or another. Voting only gives us the illusion of freedom, while we elect our new warden who is only following orders from some higher eschelon. We don't need a new Ruler governing over the same old system. The old system is not working, it's time for something else instead.

as for Ron Paul, he's no different than any of the rest of them. I don't think this is lost on the website's administrator. Information is important, no matter where it might come from. Ron Paul strikes a chord in the hearts of people who want change, but he really has no intention to change anything. This is less obvious than the blatant lies told on network television news, but no less harmful to our autonomy!

Anonymous

Posted: Aug 26 2007, 12:39 AM

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71220

I think because we don't hear anything supportive from the MSM, that is a good indication that RP does indeed plan to make changes. For the first time ever, I hear a politician actually say something that has meaning. Everytime he talks it all had substance. To me he is what a politician should be. I'm not only going to vote, for the 1st time ever, I'm donating to a political campaign. If your biggest issue is abortion, then I can see why some one would not like him. But at least you should understand why he is pro-life and agree that the pro abortion stance would have a better chance at the state level. Either way, Ron's still the best choice.

dave

Posted: Aug 26 2007, 4:43 AM

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> I think because we don't hear anything supportive from the MSM, that is a good indication that RP does indeed plan to make changes.

If RP represented a realistic prospect of genuine reform and therefore a threat to the status quo I would suggest you would have seen stories created and leaked by the controlled media and other available outlets that undermine his public image. That is normal, that happened viciously to Cindy Sheehan repeatedly, but not with RP. Why?

> For the first time ever, I hear a politician actually say something that has meaning.

Throughout history, politicians have had some very nice words. It is important to put those words in their context to determine if they are reasonable or of worth.

> I'm not only going to vote, for the 1st time ever, I'm donating to a political campaign.

It might be useful to put those words in context. Imagine that you had just said you were going to fund and support a new leadership of al Qaeda. Would that make sense?

Each to their own views of course, but such a vote would be to ignore history. To vote for a new leader of a terrorist machine which threatens the world, a machine where the real power is not given to the person you elect; personally I would like to see the supporting arguments. I would endorse the comments friendstacy made, I concur with the reasoning behind them.

Anonymous

Posted: Aug 26 2007, 6:51 AM

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71220

Thanks, Dave. I don't think it's as easy to make RP look bad like it was for Cindy. I don't think they want to give RP any attention because his message is comprehendable and resonates so easily. At least it does for me. It looks to me like most of the attention he does get is not very supportive. See George (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk60hAzwWO4) and Neil (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZnzGredcIs). BTW, it maks me sick every time I think about the way they treated Cindy.

"Throughout history, politicians have had some very nice words." His message about getting the federal government out of where they don't belong, ending the fed and irs, etc is exactly the way I have felt for a long time. Everytime I've heard another politician talk, I've always asked myself "why don't they just do something good?" RP seems to at least be on the right track.

"It might be useful to put those words in context." Good point. I am going to vote for and have donated to the Ron Paul campaign.

Finally, Ron Paul always says he wants to lead by example, not by the barrel of a gun. He's anti-war and wants to stay out of other peoples business. This sounds to me like he doesn't agree with the way things ae going and wants to see what he can do to change things. As hard as that will be to do, at least he's trying.

The bottom line for me is RP is spreading a message closer to true freedom than any one else running for office and he can can reach more people than I can.

Regards.

dave

Posted: Aug 26 2007, 8:23 AM

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71, you may like to post corrected video links, I was unable to view these.

friendstacy

Posted: Aug 26 2007, 8:40 AM

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why do you say he's anti-war? Where has he ever said he was against big military spending? I heard him say in an interview somewhere, when asked about military spending, that he plans to eliminate unneccessary federal spending, but he never says right out that the military is one of those budgets he feels should be cut...

What is his voting record? This is what people need to look at, not what he says he will do, but look at what he has already done. edit to add link http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/p000583/

He believes in the existing system. The system that is not working, and never really has. Bring back the Constitution? We never had freedom, why bring back the illusion of it? Government only exists to support the war machine. If he supports government, he supports war. The People don't want this unending war! We have been fooled into believing it's for our own good, but it only harms each and every one of us. A world without governments would need no war.

Anonymous

Posted: Aug 26 2007, 2:50 PM

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71220

Videos:
Ron on Cavuto: http://www.informationliberation.com/index.php?id=22695
Ron on Stephanopoulos: go to Youtube and search for "stephanopoulos ron paul"

Ron Paul says if we need to go to war, we declare war, go and win, and get out. But only to use war as a last resort. I happen to agree with that. Make no mistake about it: we all hate war except the losers who profit from it and while it is horrible there are times we need to fight. That said, I haven't seen that time yet.

I do not trust the Washington Post even if they do appear to be presenting the "facts". See:
"We are grateful to The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time magazine, and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promise of discretion for almost forty years." at http://www.informationliberation.com/index.php?id=18188

Just because he hasn't voted 20% of the time during the current congress doesn't mean anything to me. At least what he has voted on I agree with and he is consistent. Here's a much more comprehensive account: http://www.ontheissues.org/TX/Ron_Paul.htm

I just watched "The Money Masters" again (http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=8702) and it looks to me like there truly was freedom in the beginning. The founding fathers, while not perfect by any means, did try to make this country free but eventually lost.

I think we are on the same page. I just happen to believe Ron Paul could do a lot of good.

dave

Posted: Aug 26 2007, 7:29 PM

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To invest money in a politician in normal times would be like drinking a can of coke to cure a toothache. These are not normal times.

> The bottom line for me is RP is spreading a message closer to true freedom than any one else running for office and he can can reach more people than I can.

The decision as to whether people place trust in themselves or in politicians is one of the critical issues on which the future of America rests.

dave

Posted: Aug 26 2007, 7:51 PM

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in reply to JP

"Bad officials are elected by good citizens who do not vote." - George Jean Nathan
- That is one of the con tricks used to support democracy and destroy nations.

"People who don't vote have no line of credit with people who are elected and thus pose no threat to those who act against our interests." - Marian Wright Edelman
- Political parties are typically voted out rather than in so on balance I think that view is false and it fails to account for how elections and politics operate.

"I believe that our American system works as long as you participate in it. You must vote and make your voice heard. Otherwise you will be left out." - Mari-Luci Jaramillo
- People voted and as a consequence they have lost the right to participate.

"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." - John Quincy Adams
- I used to vote like that, until that is I realised I had misunderstood the principle.

"The margin is narrow, but the responsibility is clear." - John F. Kennedy
- JFK signed an executive order to shut down the CIA (SPECTRE) and was subsequently assassinated in broad daylight in a hail of bullets. The executive order was reversed and Arlen Specter a republican colleague of Ron Paul was part of the cover up.
http://www.geocities.com/justicewell/specter.htm

Anonymous

Posted: Aug 27 2007, 12:22 PM

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19946

Hey Dave, thanks for the Spectre link. That was interesting and I believe it. Why is Ron Paul a colleague of Spectre? Because they are both republicans? That's a pretty tenuous tie, isn't it?

So what do you suggest? If voting for Ron Paul is such a bad idea, let me now what you are going to do.

dave

Posted: Aug 27 2007, 2:10 PM

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I mentioned SPECTRE in relation to the CIA as there are so many parallels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPECTRE

The truth is often hidden in plain view. 'Diamonds are forever' was written to help a UK diamond company corner the market; the author an intelligence operative. Al-Quidah were accused of trading in conflict diamonds.

The difficulty is often not so much finding information, but knowing what is true. The lady in the red coat had no reason to lie.

As for a tenuous link between Ron Paul and Arlen Specter I don't think so as it is a point of principle. Ron Paul wants to put it to congress that laws should move back towards the constitution. I put Arlen Specter by way of example as reliable witnesses and documents support the allegation he was an accessory after the fact in multiple homicides. That is real, that is today, that is in violation of the law and the constitution. Tomorrow never comes. Ron Paul is already applying double standards. If you hear Cindy Sheehan speak of George Bush, it isn't about criticism of style, it isn't about impeachment, it is to arrest him, to arrest the whole gang. High crimes have been committed. I can't see it reasonable to worry about crimes like murder or the constitution if the president of the United States can murder hundreds of thousands of people, it follows neither reason or principle.

"History is the only laboratory we have in which to test the consequences of thought." - Etienne Gilson

dave

Posted: Aug 27 2007, 2:42 PM

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If you believe in democracy see the Aaron Rosso video as he makes the point well. In America slavery is illegal so that is democracy out if you believe in the rule of law. If there were three people should two be allowed to decide how all three live and put someone else in charge of all three? There might be compromise, one can surrender power by consent, but to have it taken from you is a hideous concept as it means you have no rights. That is slavery, just as any transaction made without mutual interest is unfair.

Two views on this board can be at odds with each other and both be right as it is for people to make their own choices. The conflict arises when people choose for others. Is that neccessary? Isn't it the fact people have allowed that to happen that there is such a mess?

Find your own truth and stand by it. Always always question, but stand up for yourself and your right to be yourself. If you care for others, stand up with that care but make your life count. If you think you might make mistakes you are unlikely to make as many as I have, it is part of the process.

That is a fundamental criticism I make of the Ron Paul option, it isn't here and now so it is a dangerous fiction when the point is that life should be about each and every person and now. People are being killed at this time, is your life more important than theirs? The moment one person is more important than another, that is the road to hell. The moment someone promises you tomorrow, it is likely to be a politician. I used to drink at a pub where it said over the door; "free beer tomorrow".

You asked what I am doing. I should say I am not an American though America effects the whole world. I was British though recently I declared self-sovereignty. One criticises politicians but people are programmed to believe in 'law and order'. The corrupt politicians have been making the laws, I cannot accept that either. You might have noticed that Attorney General Alberto Gonzales changed the law to abolish the right to a fair trial and now quits. The damage is done but just because it is law doesn't mean I can accept what he has done; I do not. Sometimes one finds the truth is so ugly it should be changed.

"Never do anything against conscience even if the state demands it." - Albert Einstein

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