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Article posted Nov 26 2011, 5:00 AM Category: Commentary Source: InformationLiberation Print

Who Knew The Zeitgeist Movement/Venus Project Imploded A Few Months Ago?

Chris | InformationLiberation

Wow, I don't know how I missed this! Apparently, the Venus Project and the Zeitgeist Movement have imploded due to Jacques Fresco's egomaniacal insanity.



[Video replaced, the original video was taken down.]

This is too rich. Peter makes the guy famous, then, of course, the idiot communist who doesn't believe in private property and says no one should be allowed to own anything, says Peter is "stealing" his intellectual property (the only type of property which doesn't exist!) and is not giving him enough credit for "his" ideas! Is there anything more laughable? Meanwhile, as they say in the audio below, he copied many of his ideas from Buckminster Fuller and the utterly deplorable B.F. Skinner (who no doubt developed their ideas from others as well).

Apparently, TVP wanted to raise 20 million dollars for some stupid movie, and Peter Joseph, who has worked in the film industry for 10 years, said he thought it wasn't a great idea, was highly speculative, and would probably not work out, especially in this economy. Therefor, they completely turned on him.



I'm not a huge fan of Peter's views on most issues, but there is no question his first film was absolutely superb and the second one threw it all away by promoting Jacques Fresco's crazy version of communism with magic robots. I really feel sorry for Peter, but this is an absolutely epic socialist fail.

Here's the full audio, it's astonishing to listen to. The Venus Project lady is a complete and total control freak lunatic who feels no one should be allowed to advocate for The Venus Project except through their website, she is literally against having The Zeitgeist Movement advocate for her movement because they're not 100% in lockstep parroting their BS (and dead set on funding their $20,000,000+ film). She even forbids them from using any of their material, completely ignoring fair use law, not to mention their communist philosophy that no one owns anything. Jacques, she says, wanted to take part, "but he was sleeping." Yeah, sure. You have to love the way these communists are total control freaks and absolutely hate freedom and free association.



[Skip to around 55:00 if you don't want to hear it all.]

Here's Peter's podcast after this all went down.





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Comments 41 - 60 of 105 Add Comment < Page of 6 >
Chris

Posted: Dec 01 2011, 8:42 AM

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The conquest theory of wealth is not accurate. Wealth has to be produced before it can be looted. America (and now the world) didn't get rich off robbery, but though production. Select corporatist interests got rich off stealing from other productive producers of goods and services through the state, government parasites get rich off stealing from people through taxes, but they don't create any wealth at all, they just loot the wealth of others (which is created through labor, savings & investment).
Chris

Posted: Dec 01 2011, 8:55 AM

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Dennis said: "Has austerity in the face of recession(imo depression) ever worked for anyone but a bankster?"

Yes, check out this video,"Why You've Never Heard of the Great Depression of 1920."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czcUmnsprQI
Chris

Posted: Dec 01 2011, 9:05 AM

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"No doubt like stefbot you sit on your comfy couch and deride Occupy too."

Hey David, maybe you should read this field report Gary wrote from Occupy Denver before spewing such nonsense, your assumptions are 100% wrong:
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=36966
Chris

Posted: Dec 01 2011, 9:34 AM

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Ok David, i just listened to five minutes of Ken Wilber on Youtube, I found it painful. Empty meaningless new-age nonsense IMO. Hmm... maybe that's the point though? ...whoa, I just blew my mind!

;)

I do enjoy British philosopher Alan Watts, he talks all about eastern philosophies without spewing meaningless clap trap, he's one of my favorite people ever and I've listened to talks of his for hundreds of hours.

As to Nathaniel Branden, I'm not really a fan. I didn't like his parts in Ayn Rand's books and I found them pedantic and boring. Also, I don't know why you assume all this stuff about stefbot, are you an "ex-molyneuxvian" or something? I think I heard some of his interview with Branden but again I found it uninteresting. I do remember hearing him on some interview with Marc Stevens, he said something about how there is no need for a state and Branden freaked out on him, the whole interview was quite awkward. I enjoy Stefan's work for the most part, I don't enjoy listening to therapy sessions though and I disagree with him on a ton of issues, but as far as statism is concerned, as well as raising children non-violently, he is absolutely dead on.
Dennis in MI

Posted: Dec 01 2011, 1:08 PM

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24213 I disagree, the conquest made available the raw materials for the industrial revolution, FOR FREE. Free because it was taken. Labor was needed but it sure wasn't properly compensated. Those robber barons were(and still are, legally tho) more than happy to beat labor into submission. Investment is a lot easier to get going if the raw materials are looted.
I checked out the video and it's interesting. What's his face dismissed the inequality present in 1920 and again in 1929 and now in 2011 as being a fact of nature. I think it's a major indicator of a system about to fail. Because wages have stagnated and ALL the productivity increases have gone to the 1%, people have no money to buy anything but black friday walmart doorbusters. I see the golden age of capitalism being the period when wages increased with productivity, taxes were progressive, a safety net was enacted and regulations were non-existant. I'm all for the first 3 but someone must regulate and business can't be trusted to give us clean water, air and soil.
I don't believe in these stimulus giveways to the tbtfails. SS and Medicare and UE insurance are paid insurance programs, NOT entitlements, NOT stimulus, NOT to be F*&^ckd with.
I'm all for a smaller govt. DOE DEA ATF TSA DHS DOE USDA off the top of my head are uneccesary, redundant, and should be eliminated. We have 17? agencies devoted to national security and when they failed on 911, the consensus DC solution was to add DHS to the list. That was CRAZY and that is what we have become.

Chris, did you use to post on Alternet?
David

Posted: Dec 01 2011, 8:59 PM

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138130 Chris I'm happy to have my assumption upon Gary re 'Occupy' proven wrong. All else stands and you have proven none of your assumptions, which is really the big question here, isn't it. As it is you who has made such a meal of arrogantly (stefbot-like) damning others visions as fictions when your own ideology is based on a fantasiful fiction itself -Talk about hypocrisy. But ofcourse you have the 'Wild West' as your 'unquestionable' PROOF - Talk about laughing out loud. How about trying Lithuiania and Somalia as freemarket proofs too.
Like I said I don't mind you putting your vision forward but please be wary of claimimg 'IT' to be 'absolutely dead' right and all others laughably wrong. Its the talk of fundamentalist and most politicians and unbecoming of your obvious intelligence. It always amazes me when I hear people talking of having taken 180 degree turns in their views but don't see the fanaticism with which they now hold their new view is what hasn't changed. Just REBORN. This is where I find 'Integral philosophy' (and any other 21 century thinking) helpful. Being critically 'inclusive' of the whole rather then just only being selective and negating. Allan Watts would approve. To do that the 'integral philosophy' way you would need to understand and acknowledge what value was/is served by that in which you seek now to criticise. Thats not so easily done with 20C thinking. 19 - 20C thinking can be wonderful at bringing clarity through critical thought but often lacks 'discernment ability' and thus can chuck the baby out with the bath water as it fails to see the limits of its own view.
Lets get practical for a moment though.Id like to hear your intelligence upon something fresh and new and directly relevant now. Here in australia we have a delima regarding a water system. A large river has been irrigated by Farmers and Growers for 200 yrs. Problem is that the bottom the river is running low and this is allowing the sea to come in and ruin by saltification otherwise valuable land. Aside from the ecological catastrophy of this beautful area, there are also many peoples livelihoods down there that are getting ruined. And the farmer/growers down there are particularly pissed of because they have been employing best practices regarding water efficiency for years and their northern farmers have not felt so compelled. And in fact have been undercutting those further south because of taking less overhead making it doubly hard. And ofcourse they profit more as the problem gets worst for those further south. Real world stuff.
The Gov't is of course also being blamed for not regulating irrigation leases enough. And the Gov't now is going to impose (through force of violence as aways) tougher regulation to limit the irrigator's water take, so that there may be more equitability amongst the farmer, saving the towns they bring income too and hopefully stopping further ecological devastation too.
So Chris can you please answer whats the freemarket appraisal of the situation. Whats your solution. And yes by all means, you may start with how the Gov't is to be blamed for causing this situation in the first place. And give a wild west solution answer too


David

Posted: Dec 07 2011, 5:54 AM

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138130 If there is any other anarchist libertarian out there who would like to answer my question re australian water system I'd still like to hear it. It seems chris and gary can't follow through in their arguments so seems Dennis and I have shown up their arguments limitations. But I thank them for their contributions. I suspect chris is rationalizing his non-participation is due to himself being sharply criticized, but given the tone of his criticisms this is simply an inexcusable excuse. God bless ya!
Chris

Posted: Dec 20 2011, 3:04 AM

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Hey Dennis, sorry for the delayed response. I've never written to Alternet before, I have posted a comment or two when some writer there attacked me over the government run firefighters letting a house burn down story I wrote about a while back. I agree w/ you on all the unnecessary agencies, I just think you're not going far enough. I think if you dig deep enough into it you'll see they're all unnecessary & government as an institution is completely unnecessary (and thoroughly destructive). I don't think the problem is inequality of income, I think it's the inequality of opportunity, IE government barriers to entry into markets serve established businesses and keep others from competing, it's an uneven playing field.
Chris

Posted: Dec 20 2011, 3:22 AM

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Hey David, sorry for the delayed response as well. I think my ideology is based firmly in reality, the proof in the value of freedom isn't just in the wild west but the sum total of every voluntary action in the world between consenting parties for their mutual benefit, that's what markets are, even if they're hampered by government in a myriad of ways.

Thank you for the excellent question via Australia's water system. To me it's a classic example of "the tragedy of the commons": http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/TragedyoftheCommons.html

No one owns "communally owned" property, therefor they have no interest in being a wise steward of it, it triggers a mad dash to consume all the resources because if you don't someone else will. When property is privately owned, people are much more likely to be wise stewards of the property as it's in their best interest to do so. Check out this video from Walter Block, "Free Market Environmentalism Is Not An Oxymoron": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXlaS2_igyY
harryellimpio

Posted: Dec 21 2011, 12:23 PM

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87221 Nothing that we have is ours, it is only loaned.
The only thing we own and cannot be taken away is death.
David

Posted: Feb 02 2012, 7:33 PM

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101161 Hi Chris, I'd kind of given up on you replying but happy to see you did. I read the interesting 'commons' article and watched the video and have some queries in mind.
Number one query is how you would see the practice of 'everything owned' applied to the 'river' in my example. I wonder how one goes about owning a river, especially one in which already so many farmers and horticulturist claim the right to. My guess is you would have to use Gov't which leaves your 'anti gov't' position in a curious position. And if all things are best managed by private ownership (Highly Debatable) then as your article says HOW are we to allocate ownership of the seas and for that matter the atmosphere - More Governance?
Furthermore whilst I was away recently camping in the (PRESERVED from private ownership sanctuary) wilderness of a national park I looked upon the moon and it occured to me that now that you guys have put a flag on it and bombed it, I guess the moon is now USA owned or more precisely the property of some businesses backed by their hired enforcers(US military) who will next look to mine it.
If all this is truely OK then so be it. (Though I doubt in your heart of hearts or even clear rational mind that you truely believe it).

BUT at least lets not kid ourselves chris. 'Ownerhip' has violence at its core. Either its the violence of disposition - the wild west or the violence of possession - I claim it because i have the violent force or threat of violent force to defend my claim. Seeing this should immediately bring some concern to you regarding the fundamentalism with which AL claims its singular righteousness based upon a moral argument of Non Violence. Its a core contradiction in the AL argument and you are going to have to account for it.
Seeing this might be enough to make one a believer in communist theory because in theory at least it can claim a non violent bases. Personally I don't believe in any theory. Human nature is far to complex, horrendous and wonderful. Its reality that counts, not the pondering of marx or austrian school boys. And the reality is that Modern Governance has been a moderating influence upon violence in this world, despite the turbulence and horrors that continue to happen, we still do live in a more peaceful world when progressive governance is in place. And the progress this brings us is all around us. In reality now!
Anonymous

Posted: Feb 04 2012, 9:16 PM

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101161 Just thought id add an obvious example to counter your african drought story.
The national park commons i was just camping in was only available to me because the Gov't at the request/protest of 'the people' some years ago, restricted businesses from owning the right to 'log it'. The old growth forest was particularly sought after for private ownership and would have been logged years ago, as has happened with ALL other private owned lands surrounding this commons. This is but one of thousands of everyday examples where gov't critically protects community interests over the interest of would be private ownership. And this is no small matter chris for what would happen to the amazon if it was just privately owned. A world disaster that would leave your freak african drought example very unimportant. These are the everyday realities AL is going to have to do much better to explain away.
And on that freak african drought, you do realize don't you that it can be just as well argued that it was the lack of gov't drought planning and intervention that caused the commons problems. Thus more gov't management is needed not less. But again lets not kid ourselves that private ownership will cope with droughts. Here in Australia we know very well that privately owned farms will at time fail to handle the divastations of prolonged drought, in fact these farmers critically rely on gov't to bail them out during harsh times. No bank or private insurer will be willing to bail them out, too risky but Gov't can and does which is a good thing because it does allow us all to reap the rewards when the good years do come around and of course it helps rural communities survive too. Such obvious example's and explanation's may be boring for an AL'ist to read. Revolutionary and sensationalist they are not, just everyday realism, something the video (you asked me to watch) was devoid of. I call that boring.
Anton

Posted: Jul 16 2012, 12:24 AM

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201141 Chris, you're a douchebag and you're completely missing TVP's point and oppose a viable future and therefore you should burn! Or at least that's the way I would express my point of view if I expressed myself the way you do.

I firmly believe you are totally oblivious of what TVP and all of Fresco's "egotistic greed" as you make it sound like. I firmly believe you're missing the whole picture and through your hatred of state you also show hatred of growth and the freedom you supposedly want. Free market? As long as we live in a monetary-based society we cannot achieve freedom, for money creates poverty, separation, greed as well as social and individual stagnation. We need to transition to a resource based economy if we want to thrive and prosper, all in a society based on peace.

And, guess what? I am an anarchist myself.
Anton

Posted: Jul 16 2012, 12:26 AM

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201141 * I firmly believe you are totally oblivious of what TVP and all of Fresco's "egotistic greed" -as you make it sound like- are all about.
Anonymous

Posted: Apr 25 2013, 10:03 AM

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138130 This is exactly why man cannot , agree to create a complete solution.
Letalone administer, and make it work. Incomplete, imperfect , man is doomend to disagree, disorganise a complete solution. Greed , selfishness, to name a few.... But GOD will...good luck for trying though.
Anonymous

Posted: May 05 2013, 7:59 AM

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220239 The most revelant thing i have ever seen on this discussion is this:

http://zeitgeistworker.wordpress.com

VERY relevant!
Anonymous

Posted: Jun 19 2013, 1:03 PM

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98116 These "magic robots" are called 4-D printing technology and Nano-technology. If you did any research or obtained any knowledge, you wouldn't state such ignorance. Clearly, you have not done your research so your opinion is certainly null and void until you understand THOROUGHLY what the man talks about.
Anonymous

Posted: Jun 19 2013, 1:17 PM

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98116 Also, they didn't split because of ego. It's because if you look closely at how TVP and TZM advocate, it is different. Jacque did not agree with the direction Peter was heading and Peter was not open to learning much of what he doesn't know, while still riding on the back of TVP. That becomes a recipe for misconstrued and differing statements. It only makes sense they work together but separately in their own ways.
Anonymous

Posted: Jun 23 2013, 2:39 AM

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24114 Oh god I'm laughing so hard reading the calm, informative responses to this idiot "Chris", and watching his sarcastic, narcissist responses.
Why any of you bothered to attempt to inform such a hopeless, delusional Internet tough guy is beyond me, but I must admit it was amusing!
Anonymous

Posted: Jun 23 2013, 2:46 AM

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24114 However this is why I believe as a species we still need hundreds of years of maturing as a species. People like him will be riddled throughout our resource based economy infecting it with their stupidity, while it slowly crumbles.
Let the government play their capitalist game and let the people wake up on their own. Until then I will continue to indulge and abuse how easy it is to get to the top with such closed minded people scattered around me.
Comments 41 - 60 of 105 < Page of 6 >


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