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Article posted Nov 26 2011, 5:00 AM Category: Commentary Source: InformationLiberation Print

Who Knew The Zeitgeist Movement/Venus Project Imploded A Few Months Ago?

Chris | InformationLiberation

Wow, I don't know how I missed this! Apparently, the Venus Project and the Zeitgeist Movement have imploded due to Jacques Fresco's egomaniacal insanity.



[Video replaced, the original video was taken down.]

This is too rich. Peter makes the guy famous, then, of course, the idiot communist who doesn't believe in private property and says no one should be allowed to own anything, says Peter is "stealing" his intellectual property (the only type of property which doesn't exist!) and is not giving him enough credit for "his" ideas! Is there anything more laughable? Meanwhile, as they say in the audio below, he copied many of his ideas from Buckminster Fuller and the utterly deplorable B.F. Skinner (who no doubt developed their ideas from others as well).

Apparently, TVP wanted to raise 20 million dollars for some stupid movie, and Peter Joseph, who has worked in the film industry for 10 years, said he thought it wasn't a great idea, was highly speculative, and would probably not work out, especially in this economy. Therefor, they completely turned on him.



I'm not a huge fan of Peter's views on most issues, but there is no question his first film was absolutely superb and the second one threw it all away by promoting Jacques Fresco's crazy version of communism with magic robots. I really feel sorry for Peter, but this is an absolutely epic socialist fail.

Here's the full audio, it's astonishing to listen to. The Venus Project lady is a complete and total control freak lunatic who feels no one should be allowed to advocate for The Venus Project except through their website, she is literally against having The Zeitgeist Movement advocate for her movement because they're not 100% in lockstep parroting their BS (and dead set on funding their $20,000,000+ film). She even forbids them from using any of their material, completely ignoring fair use law, not to mention their communist philosophy that no one owns anything. Jacques, she says, wanted to take part, "but he was sleeping." Yeah, sure. You have to love the way these communists are total control freaks and absolutely hate freedom and free association.



[Skip to around 55:00 if you don't want to hear it all.]

Here's Peter's podcast after this all went down.





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Comments 1 - 20 of 105 Add Comment Page of 6 >
Anonymous

Posted: Nov 26 2011, 7:16 AM

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68149 haha
Anonymous

Posted: Nov 26 2011, 11:58 AM

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70178 chris, be honest about what this guy 'wants'... he's not even promoting anything. he states facts. and you even contradict yourself when you say he's a communist, but then a capitalist.

in the future: every person won't own a copy of X device. we won't be mindless consumers. will will share things, because we have no choice.

this is common sense.

you claim this guy is an egomaniac, but so are you, chris. and in this case, it's less ok for you to be this way. biased journalism...
Chris

Posted: Nov 26 2011, 1:52 PM

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He promotes a centrally planned dictatorship with the caveat that everyone can have anything they want because of his made up technologies which have solved the problem of scarcity.

You really believe he has "secret" blueprints which solve all the world's problems? You think his 20 million dollar movie is a good idea?

Do you think he is going to first off get funding for a 20 million dollar movie, second release the movie and have it make over A BILLION DOLLARS in profit, and then third he is going to take the billion dollars and only then finally build a prototype of his made up society despite him yet to have developed a single real world prototype of any of his "inventions"?

If his technology is so efficient, wouldn't that be the number one thing to develop to fund everything? How come not one single investor has funded any of his projects for profit? If he can create an endless amount of goods with his imaginary technology, why doesn't he do so? Why does he need a BILLION F*CKING DOLLARS before he starts building ANYTHING?

You need to be honest my friendly broham, the man is a complete joke and possibly a flat out con-artist. He spit in Peter Joseph and his greatest supporters' faces because they wouldn't give him 20 million dollars to burn on possibly the dumbest business plan ever to be created, despite claiming to be some socialist who is against all things commercial, did you even watch this video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpYkACMMd-0

The man is a despicable human being and an utter disgrace.
Anonymous

Posted: Nov 26 2011, 9:37 PM

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141117 Hmm, this article is incomplete.
Anonymous

Posted: Nov 26 2011, 10:29 PM

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9971 this is a thorough misunderstanding of the situation, which btw, was resolved months ago, as well as a thorough misunderstanding of both organizations. Peter and other TZM advocates still mention TVP and still direct people to the TVP website for more information. TZM is not forbidden the use of TVP material as long as it is properly cited.

way to miss the mark. congratulations.
Anonymous

Posted: Nov 26 2011, 10:40 PM

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9971 Chris, every thing you questioned in your above comment has readily available answers. (blueprints, money for the movie/city, investor funding for profit, etc.) apparently you haven't looked them up yet. if you, after developing a good working knowledge of the TVP proposal, don't think it will work, that's fine. but your criticism in this post shows a complete lack of knowledge.
Laurie Simons

Posted: Nov 27 2011, 2:45 AM

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2418 Hi Chris. Just wanted to make a comment here now that I've had a chance to listen to the full podcast and watch the video clip of Jacque that you referred to in your post.

I can only speak for myself, so that is what I will try to do. In February of this year, I watched "Zeitgeist: Moving Forward" on YouTube (a friend sent me the link). It was the first time I had ever heard of Peter Joseph or Jacque Fresco. I was dumbstruck, stopped in my tracks, and clear that this was the future I had been waiting for. Resource Based Economy. Everyone in. Using our science and technology for the good of everyone. Eliminating profiteering in favor of caring for humanity.

That's what it is all about for me. In June, my husband and I went on a tour of The Venus Project, where we met Jacque and Roxanne, and began to learn much more about creating a positive future.

I am sad about the splits and rifts. I am a professional counselor, and have worked my whole life on trying to help people get along. I see clearly that we humans (myself included) are still evolving, we are not fully enlightened yet!

I have a question, a request, and a challenge:
1. Question: Why do you (or I) speak in a derogatory manner about someone, creating him/her as a villain, rather than attempting to understand the positive intent behind his/her actions? In my work with parents, this is one of the first principles I try to put forth - children who are seen as villains become villains. When their positive intent is assumed, their actions become understandable, and then we can help them change their actions for better effectiveness.
2. Request: Can you please stick to raising questions, instead of casting insults? In your post, you do raise some great questions, but the insults are off-putting to me (and maybe to others as well?)
3. Challenge: Can you and I (for example) find a way to set aside our reactions and judgements and defensiveness just long enough to hear each other out, and be curious and inquisitive about behaviors we don't understand?

Chris, If you and I can do this, then I have hope for humanity.

I honestly believe that you and I and Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows and Peter Joseph all have positive intentions for a better future.
Chris

Posted: Nov 27 2011, 3:58 AM

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Hi Laurie, I am sorry but "I have magic robots" is not an actual solution to the problem of scarcity in the world. Neither you nor I know anyone else's intentions, to assume they're good is an assumption. Regardless, someone's good intentions count for nothing when what they're advocating is wrong. People who advocate for statism have good intentions, the question is what does it produce? Over 100 million dead bodies over the last century. Sorry, but good intentions count for nothing.

"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?"
- Mahatma Gandhi, "Non-Violence in Peace and War"

I don't speak derogatorily toward people who are not advocating idiocy, I don't see any point in acting like everyone is good and wonderful. Not everyone is sunshine and flowers, especially not people who seek to control the lives of others.

Should I think of the good intentions of Daniel Pike the pepper spray cop? Should I speak of him with respect and try to understand him? Or should I say he's human trash and the world would be better off if he was hit by a train? I choose the latter.

>>"Can you and I (for example) find a way to set aside our reactions and judgements and defensiveness just long enough to hear each other out, and be curious and inquisitive about behaviors we don't understand?"

Sure, lets give it a try. Watch our intro to Austrian economics ( http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=30611 ) also watch Stefan Molyneux's critique of Zeitgeist: Moving Forward ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg5K07c72Tw ) and please tell me how it affects your belief in the Venus Project!
Anonymous

Posted: Nov 27 2011, 5:10 AM

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138130 Chris your being very selective here about whats most laughable. Sure there can be disagreements and different directions taken by people, no matter what system they advocate. That doesn't discredit the genius involved, and nor to the egomania that often goes hand in hand with that. You obviously love Stefan Molyneax and therefore I guess also Ayn Rand. Her genius is clear and so too her egomania and yet you wont discredit her or her ideas because of it. whats most laughable here is your wish to be a PETTY POLITICIAN egotistically wishing to score a cheap point for HIS SIDE. Thats SOOOO 20th century chris, time to evolve please
Chris

Posted: Nov 27 2011, 5:44 AM

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So, you think his plan to make a billion dollars by making a 20 million dollar movie in order to finally finance his utopia is genius? He is really just one more movie away from creating a world without scarcity?

Yes, I like Rand and Molyneux, I don't agree with them on everything like some Frescoite, last I checked, Molyneux doesn't demand his followers unwavering obedience, not only that, he gives everything he makes away for free (what an evil greedy capitalist!). Rand's wrong ideas are wrong, such as her position on the need for a state, her belief in IP, her loving the US military and supporting all these loser politicians. Just because she was wrong on some things, doesn't mean she is wrong on all things, her non-fiction books are absolutely superb despite their flaws, being wrong on a few issues doesn't discredit a person, no one is right on everything.

I don't even know what you're talking about "petty politician," do you realize I am an anarchist and I advocate a stateless society?

You know what actually, you convinced me, believing in Fresco's magic robots is clearly the path to salvation, I'm living in the past thinking someone with secret plans to solve all the world's problems hasn't had secret blueprints for the last 50 years and just needs to raise 20 million dollars (which he will certainly parlay into a billion) to make it all happen despite never producing a single proof of concept his entire life!

I think I'll go donate right now, thanks bro!
Anonymous

Posted: Nov 27 2011, 7:02 AM

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213251 I was not aware of this, thank you Chris for making me aware of it. It is not that surprising, they both seem like smart people, Fresco is well within his right to try and distance himself from the zeitgeist movement and he probably under estimated how popular that might become. Peter could have quite possibly had good intentions as well.

But it makes me as a free market anarchist laugh because venus project and zeitgeist is all about working together and sharing common interest. But yet they decide not to work together and compete or at least both operate with different goals.
David O'connor 138130

Posted: Nov 27 2011, 7:56 AM

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138130 (Sorry for not using my name before, just lazy). The way I see political talk of the 20th century is "us and them" "I'm right your WRONG" with the professional politicians most commonly mistaking "deafness as deftness" "clever talk for intelligence" and "sarcastic put downs as critical thinking". Sadly to me you and stefan are often 'mistaken' in this way. Sad because I believe you are both far from stupid and yet this 20th C talk is really lacking much when compared to 21st century possibililties. I just listened to the entire podcast with rachel and peter and others. Mostly I was greatly encouraged by their communication, particularly being it was so divisive and personal to them. Well done guys.
Chris I also saw just now that laurie has invited you to give more of your intelligent self. I hope you will take up her challenge my anarchist 'BRO' because like laurie I do see there is much more that unites us then divides us here. Can you see that too?
Anonymous

Posted: Nov 27 2011, 1:33 PM

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2418 Hi Chris-
I have watched the two clips you suggested. You asked me to report how it affects my belief in the Venus Project.

Clearly, I am not an expert in economics. But my recent interest in the idea of a Resource Based Economy has led me to research the subject.

There seems to be a dichotomy or tension between the free market and government regulation. Between individual interest what's good for the "group".

There also seems to be a long standing historical opposition (particularly in the United States) to the idea of "socialism" and "Marxism"- which seems to be related to a concern about being controlled or monitored or having goods rationed by an external and impersonal authority. ("Marxism with robots").

In my view, any system involving human beings has to somehow account for both individual needs/desires and group needs/desires.

One example that illustrates this point for me occurs in comparing the health care system in Canada (government funded) with that in the U.S. (free market style). This is a subject I know a lot about, having produced a documentary on the subject: www.healthcaremovie.net.

The Canadian health care system is not "perfect", but this is how it works: there is a pool of money (resources) designed to serve the entire population. The challenge is to provide the highest quality of care in the most efficient manner given the available resources. A high percentage (over 90%) of Canadians really like their health care system (compared to a U.S. style system) :
http://blogs.e-rockford.com/chucksweeny/2008/07/01/91-percent-of-canadians-like-their-health-care-system/

Canadians are always working on improving their system. For example, they have reduced wait times considerably in recent years. They do this by workiing together, by claiming the health care system as something that belongs to all of them, that it is theirs to improve. Like a "cooperative".

That is the "group" approach I mentioned earlier. Some individuals (10%) are not happy with it. Like I said, it's not perfect.

I view the idea of a Resource Based Economy (and the Venus Project - which is at least offering a forward thinking solution) as a new way if thinking that is not based on the monetary system. It's like standing outside of an aquarium and talking to a fish. The fish says, "What water?"

I have been observing how every aspect of my life is controlled and limited by the monetary system; by the profiteering of major corporations that are buying each other out and monopolizing what used to be an economy with more opportunities for ordinary folks.

My only hope is that we humans can come together instead of polarizing. We collectively, if we cooperate, have the intelligence and the technology to make sure every person on earth is provided with basic necessities of life: clean air, water, food, shelter, transportation, communication. Shame on us if we don't take immediate action to make this happen.

In conclusion, having watched the clips you suggested, I would say my "belief" (maybe I should call it "hope") in the Venus Project, or whatever will work to achieve the above, is still intact.
david O'connor 138130

Posted: Nov 27 2011, 3:38 PM

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138130 To anonymous re 'canadian vs us health care'. Most Informative,thankyou. We here in Australia feel the same way. So a deserved thankyou to 'Progressive Gov'ts' that have brought this about. So sad is the stress for Americans. Being so reliant on private health care has them to easily shafted by corporate health businesses. This extortion has them pay many times more for their health care then we do. And thus so many can't afford it.
Laurie Simons

Posted: Nov 27 2011, 4:12 PM

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2418 Hi again, sorry, I didn't mean for my post (Nov 27 1:33 pm) to be anonymous. Thanks to david O'connor for your comments.
Chris

Posted: Nov 27 2011, 4:19 PM

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You know what, I'm super thankful for state run health care too! The government is so much better at running the economy, why do we even have private industry again? I think the government should nationalize every industry and run them all for the good of ALL people, not just the greedy capitalists! If only there was a country which embodied my belief system where the state ran everything and there was no evil free market exploiting everyone! That would be the best possible system evar!
Chris

Posted: Nov 27 2011, 4:30 PM

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To Laurie, please read "How an Economy Grows and Why It Doesn't" by Irwin Schiff next, thanks.
Chris

Posted: Nov 27 2011, 4:40 PM

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Dear Laurie, I want to live in a free market and have freedom, you want to live in a nanny state and have the state run everything. In my world, you'd be free to live in a socialist utopia, in your ideal world, I'd be forced by state goons under threat of jail and murder to take part in a system I want nothing to do with and am morally opposed to.

Have you ever thought maybe someone doesn't want your "help"?

Do you have any idea how government is imposed on people?

Do you think "we are the government" and "we choose our representatives," or government is enforced through the barrel of a gun on unwilling subjects by a hostile gang of criminals?

While you may be a loyal servant of the government, I am an unwilling subject. Do you understand how that could change a person's perspective on the government's "help"?
Chris

Posted: Nov 27 2011, 5:20 PM

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Oh, also Laurie, I'm wondering, how do you feel about the fact doctors are banned by the state in Canada from providing private health care? Do you support using the police to coerce people from voluntarily contracting between mutually consenting parties to trade for their services? Do you support having undercover stasi agents staging stings against private doctors for the crime of providing health care to their patients outside of the state? I'd love to know how that fits in with your worldview, thanks.
Laurie Simons

Posted: Nov 27 2011, 7:29 PM

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2418 Wow, Chris, it's hard to respond to sarcasm and exaggeration. Have you ever lived in Canada? (I am Canadian). The government in Canada only funds the health care system, the government has nothing to do with running it. Medical associations/hospitals and the government agree on annual budgets and pricing. That's the extent of government involvement.

And yes, there was a law passed in 1984 in Canada that forbids doctors to charge extra for medical services. That was because Canadians didn't want to end up like the United States ended up, where people with money can buy good medical care and others get what's left. Everyone in Canada can choose any doctor or hospital they want, and (because of the same 1984 law) they can get medical care anywhere in Canada and their own province pays the bill of the hosting province.

There are no undercover agents staging "stings" against private doctors. In fact there has been some concern because the law of 1984 has not been sufficiently enforced.

Here is a quote from David Korten, author of "Agenda for a New Economy":
"The term free market is a code word for an unregulated market that allows the rich to consume and monopolize resources for personal gain free from accountability for the broader social and environmental consequences".

Free market has led to bankruptcy and deaths with regard to health care in the U.S; and to contamination of precious water resources due to recent natural gas mining. Please watch the documentary "Gaslands", and then tell me what you think of the free unregulated market.

I am so sorry that you and many other Americans are not able to consider cooperative approaches because of fear of socialism or government control.

I do agree that in the U.S. the government does not represent the people any more. The system is failing all of us (maybe because the "free market" has not allowed regulation that is in the best interest of the "group"?. I don't know).

Appreciate the dialogue.

P.S. While I admit that I do have a sometimes automatic tendency to be "helpful", I also see that being helpful is just another way to promote inequality, so I apologize for pushing unwanted "help" on you.

P.P.S. In my ideal world, the "government" IS "US". (Not "them".) But we have to trust each other - to listen, and not overstep someone's concerns or objections or questions.
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